My thoughts too - but getting there...
Nashville TJ's Build - Continued
- Thread starter NashvilleTJ
- Start date
My thoughts too - but getting there...
I went on a search for either thinner pinion carrier housing shims or thinner shims which would work on the pinion gear, but found nothing that would get here quick. And since I want to keep plugging away at this thing, I decided to go ahead and throw the 50 thou shim on the pinion gear. That way I can go deeper and see what that does. Since it's fairly easy to pull the pinion bearing, I can always retreat if I need to. It just means I have to reset my pinion bearing preload - which is a bit of a pain.
It's a pain because I like to use shims instead of a crush sleeve. With a crush sleeve you can generally set the pinion bearing preload in one shot, but it takes a few rounds to get the shims correct. I didn't touch on this before, but since I'm doing it again, I'll review the process briefly. Again, 14 bolt stuff...
First up, pull the inner pinion bearing off the pinion gear. I have the Yukon gear remover, and this thing works great. Quick and easy, and absolutely no damage to the bearings:
Next, drop the shim onto the pinion gear...
... and press the inner pinion bearing right back onto the pinion gear.
Since I just did this, I had an easy target for the shim stack. The shim stack sets the distance between the inner and outer pinion bearings. This distance establishes the pressure of the bearings against their respective bearing sleeves, and this in turn sets the pinion bearing preload. In the 14 bolt, a larger shim stack decreases the pinion preload, and a smaller shim stack increases the preload.
I started with the exact shim stack I just removed, and pressed the pinion gear back into the bearings and the pinion carrier housing.
Then reinstall the yoke and torque down the pinion nut.
And finally, the pinion bearing preload is checked using a dial-type inch pound torque wrench. On the 14 bolt with new gears, the target for the rotational preload is 25-35 inch pounds.
On my first shot, the 93 thou shim stack I previously used was just a bit too tight at 50 inch pounds. So, you press the pinion gear back out of the pinion carrier housing, modify the shim stack, press it all back together, and then measure again. In this process, a thou matters. After two rounds I wound up with the 94 thou shim stack which gave me 29 inch pounds. It's that touchy. But, now it's done and I can get back to pattern making...
It's a pain because I like to use shims instead of a crush sleeve. With a crush sleeve you can generally set the pinion bearing preload in one shot, but it takes a few rounds to get the shims correct. I didn't touch on this before, but since I'm doing it again, I'll review the process briefly. Again, 14 bolt stuff...
First up, pull the inner pinion bearing off the pinion gear. I have the Yukon gear remover, and this thing works great. Quick and easy, and absolutely no damage to the bearings:
Next, drop the shim onto the pinion gear...
... and press the inner pinion bearing right back onto the pinion gear.
Since I just did this, I had an easy target for the shim stack. The shim stack sets the distance between the inner and outer pinion bearings. This distance establishes the pressure of the bearings against their respective bearing sleeves, and this in turn sets the pinion bearing preload. In the 14 bolt, a larger shim stack decreases the pinion preload, and a smaller shim stack increases the preload.
I started with the exact shim stack I just removed, and pressed the pinion gear back into the bearings and the pinion carrier housing.
Then reinstall the yoke and torque down the pinion nut.
And finally, the pinion bearing preload is checked using a dial-type inch pound torque wrench. On the 14 bolt with new gears, the target for the rotational preload is 25-35 inch pounds.
On my first shot, the 93 thou shim stack I previously used was just a bit too tight at 50 inch pounds. So, you press the pinion gear back out of the pinion carrier housing, modify the shim stack, press it all back together, and then measure again. In this process, a thou matters. After two rounds I wound up with the 94 thou shim stack which gave me 29 inch pounds. It's that touchy. But, now it's done and I can get back to pattern making...
How does it all feel with the new gear installed? Does it feel anything like what you had in there before when turning it by hand?
So I've run a few patterns after adding the pinion bearing shim. Here is the first. For the first shot I tried to target a few thou deeper than my last pattern. 46 thou of pinion carrier shims, and 8 backlash. It was a little deep. Here it is:
Creeping up on it, added a thou to get to 47 on the shim and 6 backlash. Still looked a tad deep, but I think I'm closing in on it:
And then took the shims to 49 thou, and 7 backlash. The coast side looks perfect to my eye, but I may pull 1 more thou to get the drive side just a bit shallower.
Thoughts?
Creeping up on it, added a thou to get to 47 on the shim and 6 backlash. Still looked a tad deep, but I think I'm closing in on it:
And then took the shims to 49 thou, and 7 backlash. The coast side looks perfect to my eye, but I may pull 1 more thou to get the drive side just a bit shallower.
Thoughts?
Here is a side-by-side comparison of the last drive side pattern I did prior to adding the pinion shim, compared to the current:
Man, I'll say it again. The pattern is so much easier to read on these Crowne Racing gears compared to the Yukons.
Man, I'll say it again. The pattern is so much easier to read on these Crowne Racing gears compared to the Yukons.
10, 5, 49, 7.........220, 221...whatever it takes...(bonus points for naming the movie...)
The 10/5 pattern looks slightly shallow and the 49/7 pattern looks slightly deep (maybe what you were looking for?)
How many thou difference between those two patterns do you think?
You want a beer? It's 7 o'clock in the morning... A scotch???
Whiskey for me. Let’s get this knocked out! The numbers are driving me mad. Sounds awesomely smooth though. I love smooth in any context.
Base on what I did with the new pinion gear shim, my guess is that there is 2, maybe 3 thou between those two patterns.
Based on what the Crowne guy told me, I want to be on the deep side - but not so deep as to cause problems.
As I said, I was thinking about adding a thou (going shallower) to see what that does, and I think that would put me 1, maybe 2 thou deeper than the 10 5 pattern.
Mike - do you think it would cause problems if I stayed with the deeper 49 7 pattern?
I also have a note into Crowne guy, but don't expect to hear from him until maybe tomorrow. I'm certainly not in a hurry to button it up.
Know where I should go if I need to borrow a C clamp !!
(message 1500 !!)
(message 1500 !!)
Last edited:
Gonna start calling you Jed. Jed Clampit.
If you're within 2-3 thou, my guess is that you will be good - but with your history who knows
I know your shim selection doesn't give you a whole lot of options, but I always strive to find the best pattern and then make my decision on which one to use. So, if you're deep now, is there still a "better" deep option? You won't know unless you check. But that's easy for me to say when I'm only dealing with sissy Dana 30's and 44's.
If you're not in a hurry, I would wait and see what Ben says simply for the fact he is the one that will warranty it. If you're within your 1-2 thou being deep, then that's probably where you want it.
If you're within 2-3 thou, my guess is that you will be good - but with your history who knows
Well, I joke a little about my sissy 14-bolt, but the truth is I beat on it pretty hard and it's never failed in a way that has left me stranded. Just some occasional noise. Even when I chipped the pinion in two places, completely unaware of that I still wheeled Moab with no problem.
Actually, the way it is right now I can very easily move 1 thou in any direction. Adding the pinion gear shim put me right into a sweet spot with the pinion housing shims I have.
Man, if you ever get a chance to set up a 14 bolt, Mikey, do it. It may seem tougher given the weight, but it is much easier to set up than a 44 or a 60.
I can look at a pattern, decide to make a change in pinion depth, and be looking at another pattern in 10-15 minutes. Those carrier bearing adjusters make that much of a difference.
I think I'll go ahead and go shallower by a thou and see how it looks.
Thanks for the help as always, Mike. You are a very valuable resource around here.
Last edited:
OK - added 1 thou to go shallower: 50 thou shim and 4.5 thou backlash:
I don't think I can get any better on the coast side:
And comparing the drive sides of the 49 7 and the 50 4.5 - it looks like the pattern is just a bit more centered heal to toe on the 50, but still appropriately on the deep side as I'm trying to achieve.
Mikey? ( @hosejockey61 )
I don't think I can get any better on the coast side:
And comparing the drive sides of the 49 7 and the 50 4.5 - it looks like the pattern is just a bit more centered heal to toe on the 50, but still appropriately on the deep side as I'm trying to achieve.
Mikey? ( @hosejockey61 )