Need advice from spring, shock and control arm gurus

[freebo86]

Do all the OME springs yield the same ride height on the same weight vehicle?

If the HD springs are yielding more ride height, you would need your shocks to accommodate this.

Good question. The spring lingo is way more than I may know.

I'm just stating what I read over the course of the research I did, which may very well be limited. I've installed the 949 spring in the rear and paired with the Rancho 5000X shocks like every Bob and Joe does on here. If I had more time and money on my hands I would love to pick up another set of rear springs with a lower constant and compare the ride quality. Perhaps try the 942 or whatever it is which is the "Soft Top/Regular" spring as OME calls it.

Opposite of mine, but we have reached our conclusions very differently.

Cryptic responses, I like it!

 

[Lou]

I have no experience messing with OME springs. But from what I notice in a lot of these threads is people install a certain spring, complain about the ride and also complain and how they got way more than 2.5" of lift in the rear. If that is the case they are likely fully extending the shocks in operation on the road leading to the "harsh" ride.

For reference, I have a 4" savvy mid arm and custom tuned fox shocks. Rides like a dream. I recently removed my spare and tire carrier(~150-175 lb's). My ride height changed about .5". The jeep now rides like shit. Its not that I am running "too stiff" of springs. Its because my shocks were tuned for the added weight which is now missing.

 

[freebo86]

I have no experience messing with OME springs. But from what I notice in a lot of these threads is people install a certain spring, complain about the ride and also complain and how they got way more than 2.5" of lift in the rear. If that is the case they are likely fully extending the shocks in operation on the road leading to the "harsh" ride.

For reference, I have a 4" savvy mid arm and custom tuned fox shocks. Rides like a dream. I recently removed my spare and tire carrier(~150-175 lb's). My ride height changed about .5". The jeep now rides like shit. Its not that I am running "too stiff" of springs. Its because my shocks were tuned for the added weight which is now missing.

Would an over extended shock not make noise?

I’d love to know then if my setup of the 949 and Rancho 5000X (RS55241) in the rear isn’t the right shock to use..

 

[Lou]

Would an over extended shock not make noise?

I’d love to know then if my setup of the 949 and Rancho 5000X (RS55241) in the rear isn’t the right shock to use..

Heres the problem with any off the shelf shock. Its tuned to please the widest array of customers. Rancho doesn't make the same 5000x in the same length with various valving. Just because one person LOVES the shock doesn't mean it will ride identically in your jeep given the differences in ride height and weight.

Ive ran 4 different off the shelf shocks over the years and none of them come comparatively close to a properly tuned shock for your vehicle.

 

[jjvw]

Would an over extended shock not make noise?

I’d love to know then if my setup of the 949 and Rancho 5000X (RS55241) in the rear isn’t the right shock to use..

First step is to figure out the shock travel. Then find out if that travel is divided in half from the ride height.

 

[freebo86]

First step is to figure out the shock travel. Then find out if that travel is divided in half from the ride height.

Can you say that in layman’s terms? Shock travel length is 8.16” from the manufacturer website.

 

[jjvw]

Can you say that in layman’s terms? Shock travel length is 8.16” from the manufacturer website.

How much of the shock shaft is exposed right now as the Jeep sits on the garage? Subtract that from the total travel. Those two partial measurements are the travel bias.

 

[WallyWest]

Whats your thoughts?

Springs are a major suspension component so obviously they matter. There are a crap ton of options out there, so apparently the people who make them think the design matters.

That said unless you plan on road racing your TJ the options are just height and load rating. OME has a variety of springs aimed at mild lift height with various rates depending on how much extra weight you've put on your rig.

 

[Mike_H]

Good question. The spring lingo is way more than I may know.

I'm just stating what I read over the course of the research I did, which may very well be limited. I've installed the 949 spring in the rear and paired with the Rancho 5000X shocks like every Bob and Joe does on here. If I had more time and money on my hands I would love to pick up another set of rear springs with a lower constant and compare the ride quality. Perhaps try the 942 or whatever it is which is the "Soft Top/Regular" spring as OME calls it.



Cryptic responses, I like it!

The reason people say springs don't matter is that they're talking about a very small window of application...a TJ. If you buy any available spring, marked for use in a TJ, you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in ride from one spring to the next.

The spring designers have figured out what works best, based on a typical TJ vehicle weight and the lift height they are trying to achieve.

In suspension design, once you have the weight supported at the height you desire with a spring, you control that spring with a damper.

Ergo, shocks, not springs control your ride.

 

[freebo86]

How much of the shock shaft is exposed right now as the Jeep sits on the garage? Subtract that from the total travel. Those two partial measurements are the travel bias.

Had a bit of time this evening, the rear shocks are showing 5-7/8s" of the shaft exposed.
So 8.16 - 5.875 = 2.285".

And what does this mean?

 

[jjvw]

It

Had a bit of time this evening, the rear shocks are showing 5-7/8s" of the shaft exposed.
So 8.16 - 5.875 = 2.285".

And what does this mean?

It means either the shocks are too short or the lift is too tall. The exposed shaft should be closer to 4".

 

[freebo86]

It

It means either the shocks are too short or the lift is too tall. The exposed shaft should be closer to 4".

That measurement I provided, is for the shaft exposed like inside the top cup down to where shaft enter body. I did not measure from the eye mounting. Well, based on the coils and OME's recommendations for Shocks specifications I don't understand what's going on.

OME's recommendations..
Front - 22.2" extended, 13.5" compressed, the front shocks from Rancho exceed this.
Rear - 22" extended (rancho is 21.7", compressed 13.5 (rancho is 13.7")

What are stock TJ height measurements to double check what height I actually gained. Based on my numbers, 2.75" in the front and 2.5" in the rear is what was gained.

 

[jjvw]

Factory springs are about 12", 8" at ride height.

 

[bobthetj03]

That measurement I provided, is for the shaft exposed like inside the top cup down to where shaft enter body. I did not measure from the eye mounting. Well, based on the coils and OME's recommendations for Shocks specifications I don't understand what's going on.

OME's recommendations..
Front - 22.2" extended, 13.5" compressed, the front shocks from Rancho exceed this.
Rear - 22" extended (rancho is 21.7", compressed 13.5 (rancho is 13.7")

What are stock TJ height measurements to double check what height I actually gained. Based on my numbers, 2.75" in the front and 2.5" in the rear is what was gained.

Stock TJ spring heights are 12" front, 8" rear, not counting the factory 1/2" rubber isolator.

OME's recommendations are exactly that, recommendations. No way possible for a lift maker to know exactly how much your jeep weighs, so they have to come up with an average that will satisfy the masses. It's up to you to fine tune your suspension to meet your weight and needs.

 

[jjvw]

.... It's up to you to fine tune your suspension to meet your weight and needs.

To add, it's up to you to learn and understand how things fit together. The more you can do this, the better the build will be. This is my favorite part.

 

[freebo86]

Well thanks for the info, guess this past year I've been driving on too short of shocks I guess for the rears at least, I'd have to check the fronts. Could this be part of the harsher ride I notice?

Now explain this to me, I will admit I may have omitted to properly research and do full testing prior to ordering the shocks but I do recall very well everyone stating that the Rancho's run long, some even sending back shocks and going with shorter ones for this lift lol. These shocks were more than enough for the lift.. So in my case, it is the total opposite. What are the chances? Why such a variance?

I did do a full bump check etc. to ensure tires wouldn't rub on full flex etc. I will measure the coils as well to see what their lengths are with the vehicle sitting in the garage.

 

[Lou]

With a little over 2" of down travel, when you are riding down the road you are likely fully extending the shocks over medium/ large bumps. This can definitely lead to "harshness". Would be curious what your springs measure.

 

[freebo86]

With a little over 2" of down travel, when you are riding down the road you are likely fully extending the shocks over medium/ large bumps. This can definitely lead to "harshness". Would be curious what your springs measure.

I will get to measuring them tomorrow evening, I got tied up today. In the mean time I have been reading and every thing I read these shocks I have people run on 3” of lift with no issues which I am not close to so I don’t understand why I have so little down travel. Unless my LJ is one in a million that doesn’t work with this setup as everyone else’s for whatever reason it may be. Everyone claims Ranchos run long.

I will disconnect the shock tomorrow as well and see if the actual shock travel is 8” like they claim or longer. Maybe it’s longer than their website so perhaps there is more down travel..

One thread for example;
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/rancho-rs5000x-shock-confusion.14865/#js-post-238320

 

[Goatman]

The reason people say springs don't matter is that they're talking about a very small window of application...a TJ. If you buy any available spring, marked for use in a TJ, you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in ride from one spring to the next.

The spring designers have figured out what works best, based on a typical TJ vehicle weight and the lift height they are trying to achieve.

In suspension design, once you have the weight supported at the height you desire with a spring, you control that spring with a damper.

Ergo, shocks, not springs control your ride.

The manufactures also make the shocks. Following your line.... shocks don't matter. Any shock that correctly fits your Jeep is made to work properly. Ergo shocks don't matter.

Yet they do. They all vary in their valving the same way springs vary in their travel rates. THEY BOTH MATTER. Irregardless how soft a spring, a shock with too stiff valving will restrict it from moving. Irregardless how soft a shock valving, a spring with too high a rate (for YOUR application) won't compress.

 

[Lou]

The manufactures also make the shocks. Following your line.... shocks don't matter. Any shock that correctly fits your Jeep is made to work properly. Ergo shocks don't matter.

Yet they do. They all vary in their valving the same way springs vary in their travel rates. THEY BOTH MATTER. Irregardless how soft a spring, a shock with too stiff valving will restrict it from moving. Irregardless how soft a shock valving, a spring with too high a rate (for YOUR application) won't compress.

Who sells TJ springs that won't compress?