New control arms (Savvy versus Metalcloak)
- Thread starter WNC05willys
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People say the same with JJs as well, seems to be maybe environment specific? Mine are still relatively new, so I can’t comment too much on maintenance requirements of the JJ beyond knowing I can rebuild them vs @tworley’s experience with MC needing to replace the whole.
I also don’t drive mine in the winter so that likely helps me. If mine fail I’ll probably switch to JJ to see how they compare.
If I ever get my hands on your rig, I'm installing Metalcloak control arms and joints.
I no longer have my MC arms. (midarm) They were sold on the forum and now live under two other rigs.
3 rigs in the norcal group have MC arms and none have had issues. If I didn't swap to the midarm I would have kept the MC arms simply because they worked, easy to rebuild, and were easy to adjust.
I'm coming up on year 7 with MC arms on my LJ. I've also run them on two different TJs and never had a failure or issue. In one case, my Son tore a lower control arm from the housing. In doing so the MC bushing was seriously distorted, but centered with no problems after the mount was temporarily welded back on.
The arms have performed well enough during that time that I have zero complaints. However, there is a primary reason I'd consider another joint, i.e. misalignment. Looking at a comparison of the two joints the Johnny Joint claims a maximum misalignment of up to 40°, under certain circumstances (@mrblaine would probably be the only person here that could explain what those conditions are?). My guess is that it wouldn't be with a conventional SA lift. SAMC claims 34°.
One other thing to consider is getting double adjustable arms. These are a time saver, in the event you have to make adjustments in the future. FWIW, MC uses a hexagonal shaped bar for its double adjustable arms, while Savvy uses a round bar. Both are 1.5", but the hexagonal shape of the MC arms means they have sharp edges, which tend to dig into rocks more than a round bar would. This is a little thing, but it's a thing.
The arms have performed well enough during that time that I have zero complaints. However, there is a primary reason I'd consider another joint, i.e. misalignment. Looking at a comparison of the two joints the Johnny Joint claims a maximum misalignment of up to 40°, under certain circumstances (@mrblaine would probably be the only person here that could explain what those conditions are?). My guess is that it wouldn't be with a conventional SA lift. SAMC claims 34°.
One other thing to consider is getting double adjustable arms. These are a time saver, in the event you have to make adjustments in the future. FWIW, MC uses a hexagonal shaped bar for its double adjustable arms, while Savvy uses a round bar. Both are 1.5", but the hexagonal shape of the MC arms means they have sharp edges, which tend to dig into rocks more than a round bar would. This is a little thing, but it's a thing.
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You might consider resale as well. There seems to be a larger market for used Savvy arms in my opinion. Somebody had a set of metal cloak arms up recently on FB marketplace and they sat for some time before they were sold. Savvy arms go quick and close to retail, again just based on what I've seen. If the purchase price is the same and you are on the fence this would answer the question for me.
I have no complaints with my MC arms. 40K miles and they look fine to me. There is virtually no difference in ride quality between them and JJ's. I've run both. MC's are easier to service, and they are somewhat local to me, so no magical reason why I run them. Pay no attention to the misalignment bullshit. You won't go anywhere near the misalignment angles they all claim they can achieve. If you go the JJ route, don't bother trying to grease them with the provided zerk fittings. It's hit or miss for them actually receiving grease thru them, and if you get lucky, you'll probably over grease them and blow out a bushing half in the process, so it's best to take them apart to service them.
An observation I've made a few times with MC is that there is a noticeable amount of axle wrap from the softness of the bushing. I can't help but wonder if this is contributing to some of the driveline vibes more than a few are forever chasing.
I am also aware of one case where that same softness created a noticeable amount of shuddering and movement from day one. That movement went away and the Jeep felt much tighter and more controlled after a switch to JJs.
Oddly enough despite that softness, every MC suspension I have worked with takes a lot of effort to fully cycle the axles. I don't see the same resistance to movement with JJs. Granted, there is a difference between me with a floor jack and 4500+lbs of Jeep moving the axles around. But it's just one more little thing I didn't like seeing.
I am also aware of one case where that same softness created a noticeable amount of shuddering and movement from day one. That movement went away and the Jeep felt much tighter and more controlled after a switch to JJs.
Oddly enough despite that softness, every MC suspension I have worked with takes a lot of effort to fully cycle the axles. I don't see the same resistance to movement with JJs. Granted, there is a difference between me with a floor jack and 4500+lbs of Jeep moving the axles around. But it's just one more little thing I didn't like seeing.
Don't put any more expensive thoughts in @bobthetj03's head
I believe @psrivats and @Chris both ran JJ and had the same vibs.
Don't put any more expensive thoughts in @bobthetj03's head
I believe @psrivats and @Chris both ran JJ and had the same vibs.
All I know is that the duroflex allows for more axle wrap than the JJ does. I've seen it.
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I had metal cloak short arm and then recently converted to savvy midarm but I still have 4 MC joints on my front lowers. As has been mentioned MC joints fight misalignment due to their bushing is bonded to the rubber err duroflex. If you call Savvy they will tell you DO NOT run MC joints, they hate them with a passion.
I cant say I could tell the difference in how the suspension flexes because I still have the joints in the front but I will say the more heim like misalignment of the JJ does make installation easier because you don't have to fight the rubber to position it to get a bolt in. I will swap the fronts out for JJs in the future so that I have same joints front to back.
My MC would groan during articulation on my short arm suspension, maybe they were getting dry not sure. Cue sexual comments about dry and groaning...
I cant say I could tell the difference in how the suspension flexes because I still have the joints in the front but I will say the more heim like misalignment of the JJ does make installation easier because you don't have to fight the rubber to position it to get a bolt in. I will swap the fronts out for JJs in the future so that I have same joints front to back.
My MC would groan during articulation on my short arm suspension, maybe they were getting dry not sure. Cue sexual comments about dry and groaning...
Don't put any more expensive thoughts in @bobthetj03's head
I believe @psrivats and @Chris both ran JJ and had the same vibs.
I don’t know how Johnny Joints would contribute to vibrations, but I also never tried to rule it out.
A snug, well contained joint is a quiet joint. There is a balance between just enough cushion and too much slop.
The JJ's will groan as well. My old set did it and my new set just started. My johnny joint tool just arrived in the mail today so I'll be taking them apart and throwing some Redline CV2 grease in there. I don't mind doing it, but it is good to keep your maintenance needs in mind when buying a joint. I'm trying to keep my new joints in better shape than I did with my old ones.
I think both joints are acceptable for most uses with stock shock mounts. Seems like there have been good and bad experiences on both sides of the plate.
I think both joints are acceptable for most uses with stock shock mounts. Seems like there have been good and bad experiences on both sides of the plate.
At this point you just need to swap out that 4.0 for a Hemi and see if that solves your issues
