New Motobilt 4-Link Suspension

[jjvw]

I would say you don't. You are not the market customer. They explained who the market customer was and not everyone fits that description.

If I was the manufacturer, I wouldn't get on here and argue with this crew. I would take care of those who are actually contacting you directly and answering their questions. These threads aren't going to deter or promote your product, it just becomes noise.

You're right. Everyone should preserve their respective echo chambers.

 

[rasband]

@jjvw @psrivats @Mike_H @rasband @mrblaine all seem well versed in link setups and what works and doesn't work.

I'd love to be active in this conversation, but my work is busy today - so I will have to read it as time allows. I will say that I think the premise is flawed, so everything from there on out just gets muddy.

edit: I am not in any league near Blaine, I can just spot the questionable decisions.

 

[psrivats]

@jjvw @psrivats @Mike_H @rasband @mrblaine all seem well versed in link setups and what works and doesn't work.

My name shouldn't ever be mentioned in the same vein as Blaine. I know very little.

What I do know is through trial and (mostly) error, and the rest through careful observation and comparison to jeeps that are setup right and work properly because they have been built with balance in mind in every aspect of the build.

 

[Bender]

The reason I am “on here” is not to promote anything. I was called out for not knowing what I’m talking about. My question to the group is…
“Who here has ANY practical knowledge of what the differences between low and high anti squat/dive numbers, roll centers, polar moments, roll steer and such?”

 

[Fouledplugs]

The Savvy mid arm, in and of itself does not change the wheelbase. That is it's own separate project.

I wasn't thinking that the mid arm changes the wheelbase, I was asking if wheelbase can be stretched and a taller tire can be used while also using the mid arm.

What is the tire size limit/wheelbase limit for the mid arm where a longer link would be a better fit? Can it support a 40 inch tire and 110' of wheelbase on a TJ?

Seems like the motobilt kit is designed for Jeeps using a tire size/wheelbase size that trumps a 37 inch tire.

 

[jjvw]

The reason I am “on here” is not to promote anything. I was called out for not knowing what I’m talking about. My question to the group is…
“Who here has ANY practical knowledge of what the differences between low and high anti squat/dive numbers, roll centers, polar moments, roll steer and such?”

Quite a few of us know enough to be irritating. Are you going to answer any more of the questions that have been asked?

 

[Apparition]

I wasn't thinking that the mid arm changes the wheelbase, I was asking if wheelbase can be stretched and a taller tire can be used while also using the mid arm.

What is the tire size limit/wheelbase limit for the mid arm where a longer link would be a better fit? Can it support a 40 inch tire and 110' of wheelbase on a TJ?

Seems like the motobilt kit is designed for Jeeps using a tire size/wheelbase size that trumps a 37 inch tire.

I'm using a midarm with 40's and stretching.

 

[Fouledplugs]

The reason I am “on here” is not to promote anything. I was called out for not knowing what I’m talking about. My question to the group is…
“Who here has ANY practical knowledge of what the differences between low and high anti squat/dive numbers, roll centers, polar moments, roll steer and such?”

@jvvw and @rasband eluded to knowing based off being able to identify what was wrong with the motobilt kit. Knowing what's right and wrong, I would assume they would know why, which is what the OP was looking for from the very beginning.

But there are several members here that I would think could answer those questions, your experience and expertise mixed with there's would really benefit anyone having a desire to learn.

 

[toximus]

“Who here has ANY practical knowledge of what the differences between low and high anti squat/dive numbers, roll centers, polar moments, roll steer and such?”

Between several of us replying to you, we have lots of first hand knowledge of how geometry affects behavior on the trail.

 

[toximus]

I'm using a midarm with 40's and stretching.

But...should you have used the Motobilt 4-link?

 

[jjvw]

I wasn't thinking that the mid arm changes the wheelbase, I was asking if wheelbase can be stretched and a taller tire can be used while also using the mid arm.

What is the tire size limit/wheelbase limit for the mid arm where a longer link would be a better fit? Can it support a 40 inch tire and 110' of wheelbase on a TJ?

Seems like the motobilt kit is designed for Jeeps using a tire size/wheelbase size that trumps a 37 inch tire.

I am in the parts gathering phase of pushing mine out to 101" on 35s.

We have seen many examples of 103-4" on 37s and several on 40s at the 110ish" range. Considering who is designing and building them and what they can do, l suspect the limits and parameters are well understood.

 

[Apparition]

But...should you have used the Motobilt 4-link?

Maybe, but the midarm seems to check my boxes better.

 

[jjvw]

@jvvw and @rasband eluded to knowing based off being able to identify what was wrong with the motobilt kit. Knowing what's right and wrong, I would assume they would know why, which is what the OP was looking for from the very beginning.

But there are several members here that I would think could answer those questions, your experience and expertise mixed with there's would really benefit anyone having a desire to learn.

What I see are compromises to clearance and certain characteristics in the geometry that run contrary to how my understanding and built goals have evolved over many years. And since I know full well that changes to axles, engine and drivetrain can all be accommodated with minimal compromises to my goals, I'm a bit suspicious of what feels like a sales pitch rather than a design, building and tech discussion.

 

[Bender]

Between several of us replying to you, we have lots of first hand knowledge of how geometry affects behavior on the trail.

Please enlighten me. What is your practical knowledge. Are you a recreational wheeler? A fabricator? A competitor? What kind of wheeling do you do? Yes, it’s a very powerful pointed question. I ask this because my replies will change based on your answer.

 

[jjvw]

Please enlighten me. What is your practical knowledge. Are you a recreational wheeler? A fabricator? A competitor? What kind of wheeling do you do? Yes, it’s a very powerful pointed question. I ask this because my replies will change based on your answer.

Or you could just respond with what you know without the interview.

 

[Brianj5600]

Or you could just respond with what you know without the interview.

LOL, you want Bender to type everything he knows?

 

[jjvw]

LOL, you want Bender to type everything he knows?

Don't be silly. He won't do that.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

One solution (the prevailing WTJF "wisdom") raises everything in relation to the frame (including parts of the frame) and the frame end link mounts. The MB solution raises everything, including the frame, in relation to the frame-end link mounts. I can imagine both of these resulting in the same effective belly height, only one of them has higher frame rails. If the geometry performs (and no one here has used one to qualify themselves to say that it doesn't), I don't see why the philosophy of whether the frame moves with the skid and body like MB or stays with the suspension mounts like Savvy is a hill to die on.

 

[antighboatye]

Yes. But who is involved? The people left here already know or have a some understanding, from either experience or reading countless other threads on the subject. The OP has contributed a total of two posts, apparently didn’t like the convo and disappeared.

I’m still here, I just don’t check in multiple times a day and spend exponentially more time reading than posting.

 

[toximus]

Please enlighten me. What is your practical knowledge. Are you a recreational wheeler? A fabricator? A competitor? What kind of wheeling do you do? Yes, it’s a very powerful pointed question. I ask this because my replies will change based on your answer.

All of the above, but still working on a podium.