New TJ Day - Project Goldilocks

I was right, I did end up taking the valve body off to inspect the frictions, and sure enough they were roasted. The steels in the rear drum had burn marks on them too, so It's probably a good thing I went one layer deeper in my repairs. I should probably do a full overhaul, but I don't have the time nor the space and honestly I'm over budget too. And the truth is that as long as this thing has fluid, it runs like a dream. The frictions would probably have been ok to go back in...but I found a Raybestos pack of just the 9 frictions for $28 so that seemed like a no brainer. I already had a set of new steels on hand. And since the vb is out I'll change out the shift selector seal too.

The band looks ok but I'm leaning toward replacing it as well. It probably didn't get worn TOO too badly by running low on fluid since it would never get to 2nd gear, but the drum it goes around spins even when in park or neutral, so if there wasn't enough fluid I could see it wearing. I found one that looks identical for $6 on amazon, but it was for a 727 and apparently this is a component that doesn't interchange. And I guess it wasn't prime, because it's going to cost me $5.32 to ship back a $6 item. I'll spend more in gas & time taking it to the post office.
 
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Got the transmission put back together with the new-to-me pump off eBay, which I think I previously posted that it was a 30rh pump. The part #’s are the same, and the pump wasn’t one of the modifications Chrysler did when they turned the 904 into the 999… however I did have trouble getting the pump in. I had to assist it with a block of wood and big orange.

Then the bolt holes didn’t want to line up easily. Having previously stripped out a pump bolt hole I’m very attentive to this step. Normally I have a set of studs that I thread in and then slide the pump over, but I had trouble getting all of them aligned. Visually the new pump was identical to the old pump, so I removed a few studs and continued. Eventually I got it more or less lined up, but several of the bolts did not want to go in easily. Visually one or two of the holes were just slightly off, so I knocked the pump with a punch to rotate it a degree or two. Eventually all the bolts went in & torqued down easily. Never had that much trouble before.
 
Then we went to install the new torque converter but it simply won’t go in. It was already midnight so we tabled it for a few days. Not sure if the stator isn’t engaging or if it’s the pump flats not being lined up. But I may have to pull the pump back out to do a test fit, possibly even disassembling the pump to see what’s happening from the back side. 😖
 
In the meanwhile I’m replacing the master cylinder. I planned to just bench bleed it because it was a little squishy after the normal bleed and it may have run dry at one point. Well that quickly went south, as the tube nuts were already rounded, my line wrench wouldn’t grab at all. Thus far vice grips haven’t even been able to move them.

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So new m/c, and new “shorty” lines. Can’t find the shorty lines for a TJ FOR sale anywhere so I guess I’m going to learn how to bend & flare my own lines.

I bought the $40 Titan flaring tool off Amazon, which ended up being 1000x better than the junk I borrowed from Autozone. This was my 3rd practice attempt, which I think is good enough to actually use. I got a $15 tube cutter off Amazon as well, which (no surprise) did a better job than the one I bought from Autozone. The flaring tool is great because is takes all the guesswork out of it. There is a threaded stud to help you set the initial depth, and there is a hard stop on the die so you know when you've completed each part of the flare. It doesn't take 4 hands and dominion over the laws of gravity to get it setup, and doesn't leave tool marks all over your brand new lines. I fully expected to be returning this tool, but I'm definitely keeping it now that I've seen how easy it is to use.

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Finding the correct size tube nuts has been a challenge, more to come on that.
 
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yeah, it sounds like black clouds but with the flares looking good I'm over the biggest hump. I haven't looked at the combo block side but the m/c side I have the fittings worked out. If you search it, you'll find several threads with confusing information about the sizes. Mine are definitely 10mmx1.0 & 12mmx1.0 at the m/c, which I was able to get from Inline tube. I've seen reference to one of them being an 11mm, but the 10mm & 12mm fit very nicely & smoothly. I have a few SAE sized tube nuts that came with the tubing and one of them will thread, but the fit is poor.

Hoping to look at the combo block tonight to get those fitting sized properly. Hopefully what I have on hand will fit, inline tube's shipping is draconian. I'll be pissed if I could've saved $10 on a $1 part by just ordering more sizes in my initial order.
 
hear said:
In the meanwhile I’m replacing the master cylinder. I planned to just bench bleed it because it was a little squishy after the normal bleed and it may have run dry at one point. Well that quickly went south, as the tube nuts were already rounded, my line wrench wouldn’t grab at all. Thus far vice grips haven’t even been able to move them.

View attachment 506600



So new m/c, and new “shorty” lines. Can’t find the shorty lines for a TJ FOR sale anywhere so I guess I’m going to learn how to bend & flare my own lines.

I bought the $40 Titan flaring tool off Amazon, which ended up being 1000x better than the junk I borrowed from Autozone. This was my 3rd practice attempt, which I think is good enough to actually use. I got a $15 tube cutter off Amazon as well, which (no surprise) did a better job than the one I bought from Autozone. The flaring tool is great because is takes all the guesswork out of it. There is a threaded stud to help you set the initial depth, and there is a hard stop on the die so you know when you've completed each part of the flare. It doesn't take 4 hands and dominion over the laws of gravity to get it setup, and doesn't leave tool marks all over your brand new lines. I fully expected to be returning this tool, but I'm definitely keeping it now that I've seen how easy it is to use.

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View attachment 506599Finding the correct size tube nuts has been a challenge, more to come on that.
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p.s. the flares look amazing. Your hands are too clean though.
 
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I think I may have this brake fitting stuff understood. Looks like at the m/c it has 2 metric fittings, and based on what I see inside the m/c it requires a bubble flare & tube nuts with a "lead" on the end, which is really just an unthreaded shoulder which is narrower than the threads . 12mm x 1.0 & 10mm x 1.0.

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The combo block fittings are 1/2-20 & 7/16-24 according to a couple of threads I've found on the topic. And allegedly they need a double flare and tube nuts that don't have that flare. I won't really know until I take the lines out of the combo block, but Im not quite ready to do that because it means brake fluid draining out. Regardless, I now have those fittings (along with a couple of 11mm x 1.0 which I've read may be part of this puzzle or may just be one of the fittings needed for a different port on the combo block) coming from inline tube, plus another $9.50 in s/h. I could've saved a couple bucks by getting them off amazon but apparently inline tube is the only place where you can find the 11mm tube nut.

I made up a test section to see how each flare fits with the what I believe to be correct tube nut style. I've read that the bubble flare should be 90* on the back side, mine are closer to 45* but they seem to seat ok in the nut. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll do several more bubble flares before we proceed. They take just about zero effort.

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I got all new replacement lines from inline tube. Don't they sell just the master to combo block lines? I bet a phone call would get you what you need....
 
Mike_H said:
I got all new replacement lines from inline tube. Don't they sell just the master to combo block lines? I bet a phone call would get you what you need....
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It might. They don't advertise it for sale on any of the brake line websites I've searched. At this point I've spent enough on tools & parts as what the lines would cost, although I have time to return the tool if I can't end up make this working.

I started a thread in the main forum about the flare types at the combo block because (a) what I see in the combo block doesn't look like what I see described on places like fedhillusa.com (which has a 101 section on flare types) and (b) my double flares don't look quite as "wide" as what I see on the shorty lines I removed last night.


Speaking of which, I got the old m/c out last night. One of the nuts at the booster was REALLY stuck, and because I couldn't get the lines out of the m/c I was extremely limited on options. I could get a wrench on it, but I was afraid to strip it so I really wanted a 6pt socket. The only socket that would fit was a 1/4" drive deep 13mm but even that couldn't get perfectly square on it. Eventually I used a few rounds of PB blaster and CAREFULLY placed heat, then the ring side of a box end wrench + pounding the wrench with big orange. Those nuts for some reason are like half width flange nuts, which I will replace with normal size flange nuts. It will move the m/c about 1/8" forward, but otherwise there will be no impact.

Also learned the hard way that you have to move the evap cannister in order to slide the m/c out. Because of course it took extra steps.

Random note on spelling: My MacBook pretty much insisted on correcting "cannister" to "canister." When I relented, it immediately put a blue line underneath it. So I right clicked and it suggested "canister" (double n). It continued to do this even while I write this meta section. Weird. It's like my Mac really wants to flex on it's auto-correct capabilities.
 
Been a busy couple of days on this jeep.

On the brakes front, after nearly giving up 2 nights ago I gave it another go with a fresh head yesterday and started to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I made a few more attempts and started to try some bends and things started to look ok. 3rd attempt was the one I went with. The bends aren't as crisp as I would have liked and could probably take an inch or two out of the overall length, but they threaded in to the m/c & combo block w/o tons of stress so I decided to call it good.

Next up was to bench bleed the master cylinder which I did this afternoon. It didn't take too many strokes (lol) but got it all bled & then mounted on the jeep. Got the lines all in and held my breath on my flare quality. Had my daughter slowly put pressure on the brake pedal (knowing full well the rest of the system needed to be bled too), and I did have some drips at 3 of the 4 tube nuts. Tightened them down a little more and NO MORE DRIPS!

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In the meanwhile daughter was learning how to wrench a little, putting on some bushwhacker flat flares that she loves (I know they're not popular here) that we got for free by trading her badly badly faded OEM flares. Granted we spent $30 in hardware from Ace to mount them, but they look good and she has the satisfaction of having actually done the work, and we got to listen to Led Zeppelin while we hung out together.

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After that I got most of the transmission buttoned up, still have to reconnect the driveshafts & starter. And then the dreaded dipstick. More on that in a bit.


Oh, and I have to bleed the power steering since I put the redhead box & new ps hoses on the thing. I'm very read to see this thing drive.

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A (hopefully) final note on master cylinders & flares. There are a quite a few threads on this topic and they were occasionally confusing, and I don't remember seeing any threads that really gave all the info. And I guess this is just adding to their number because I'm not addressing the fittings that go to the hard lines, I'm only concerned with what connects the master cylinder to the combo block.

There are a couple threads floating around where it is mentioned that (a) one of the fittings is an 11.0mm x 1.0 and (b) that it is really hard to find this fitting. Then there are some other threads where it is said that (c) one of the fittings is an 10.0mm x 1.0 and (d) that it is really hard to find this fitting. Now I will caveat by saying that TJs can have variations, so it's possible what I'm stating here is only true for my 97 and isn't gospel, but it more or less aligns with a lot of what I found after cobbling threads together.

First off, a definitely agree that 11.0mm x 1.0 is hard to find, but Inline Tube carries them. 10mm x 1.0 seem to be readily available on Amazon, inline tube, and even at parts stores. The Dorman master cylinder bench bleed kit also comes with those metric sizes, which supports my claim that the 10mm is a fairly standard size, and is what is in use on our master cylinders.

http://fedhillusa.com/ was a very helpful site in understanding flare types etc.

At the m/c there are 2 ports:
  • Forward (left) port
    • 12mm x 1.0
    • bubble flare
  • Rearward (right) port
    • 10.0 x 1.0
    • bubble flare
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At the combo block there are lots of ports, but we only care about the ones that connect to the master cylinder.
  • Forward (left) port
    • 1/2-20
    • double flare
  • Rearward (right) port
    • 7/16-24
    • double flare
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Note that the flare type is different at the m/c than it is at the combo block. I'm sure there is a great reason they did it this way that involves unions and committees and other awesomely effective decision making processes. Why some are SAE & some are metric it no doubt the result of an entirely different set of committees and backroom dealings.


Aaaaaaaand the finished product. I'd like to have gotten those lines to be a little shorter & have the bends be a little better, but for a DIY job I'll take it. Currently its holding pressure without leaks.
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P man said:
Looking forward to a report on the redhead steering box
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dude, SAME. The plan is to bleed it tonight and hopefully get the transmission full of fluid to sit overnight & check for leaks. I have a new non-32RH dipstick that I think will fit so I need to give that a shot tonight too. I expect *everything* to leak. Brakes, steering, trans. I didn't touch the diff covers but I'm mentally prepared.
 
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Can't remember what I've logged here, but I had hoped to avoid using the OEM dipstick because the 97 uses an o-ring that in my experience doesn't seal well after you take it out. Seems like lots of transmissions use the same size dipstick hole & the same grommet style seal, so I rolled the dice on a completely different dipstick tube.....which ended up not being bent quite right to work. Le sigh. So I put the old one back in. On *my* 97 it required a healthy dose of The Right Stuff to seal up. But I like to gamble so I didn't use any when I installed it last night.

Also bolted up the new pan with my new Lube Locker. I have 2 bolts that don't want to go in well at all. I see a helicoil in my future, but it was midnight so I decided to just go with it. I put about 7 quarts in which I think should have me with fluid level above the dipstick seal, so if it was going to leak from the pan or dipstick it would do so overnight.

Narrator: it didn't leak at all.

I'm dying to fire it up, but I need to put the skid back on first, because I need to lift the front end off the ground to bleed the power steering before I start the engine. Currently the trans is being support by the transmission jack, because I was waiting to see all the places I was going to leak from. Some lessons you learn the hard way and never forget.
 
In buttoning everything up, I noticed this little bit of future fun on the rear diff. Could just be the bearings in there are toast, or it could mean I need to replace the ring & pinion. If backlash & gear patterns are as important as everybody says, then I should be in real trouble. This didn't "just happen" so I'm confident we were driving on it this way and we felt no ill effects. Which is just to say that I'm not going to fix this before I test drive this thing after the brakes, steering, & transmission repairs I've been doing.

 
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