Pitman arm "what if"

[Schu2787]

amazing thread. You guys are savants! So, at what point of lift do you recommend track bar relocation bracket and/or dropped pitman arm. I thought I had read that the dropped pitman arms were not well received? The adj track bar solves recentering the axle on the frame, but doesnt help bump steer.

 

[AndyG]

It is much easier to visualize and explain if you use arcs that should be parallel.

https://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-68.htm

That and Jeep violated one of the more prevalent rules in that both the draglink and trackbar should be similar in length since not doing so causes them to describe disparate radii. They compensated by running them slightly out of parallel.

Thanks , great article and clear illustration..gives me a good baseline to evaluate mine , if a string from point to serves as a straight line reference .

Again , I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to understand what I have .

 

[jjvw]

amazing thread. You guys are savants! So, at what point of lift do you recommend track bar relocation bracket and/or dropped pitman arm. I thought I had read that the dropped pitman arms were not well received? The adj track bar solves recentering the axle on the frame, but doesnt help bump steer.

On stock axles there is no reasonable lift height where a dropped pitman or track bar is beneficial. If you look at some of the wider axle builds, you will sometimes even notice the opposite of those parts being dropped.

 

[Schu2787]

Ok. So there should be no excessive bump steer with stock axles and 2 1/2” or so?

 

[AndyG]

amazing thread. You guys are savants! So, at what point of lift do you recommend track bar relocation bracket and/or dropped pitman arm. I thought I had read that the dropped pitman arms were not well received? The adj track bar solves recentering the axle on the frame, but doesnt help bump steer.

It's not recommended ..unless you are somewhere around 6" plus lift according to legend.

But if you happened to a purchase a Jeep and the mount is welded , and it's has a rough country track bar which is very strong and can be made better with Moog K 7252 bushings and doesn't fit a stock mount ... You can start a thread that asks the question , " what would happen if you had that set up but kept the pitman arm stock " and get all kinds of interesting responses.

What I'm getting from it so far... At the end of the day if the angles are good and parallel that's where you want to be .

I just thought it would be interesting to ask the question. Boy it has been.

 

[jjvw]

Ok. So there should be no excessive bump steer with stock axles and 2 1/2” or so?

Mine is sitting at a perfectly ordinary 4" spring lift using the stock pitman arm and track bar mount. There is no bump steer.

 

[jjvw]

...unless you are somewhere around 6" plus lift.

...

That has entered into the realm of unreasonable.

 

[Schu2787]

Got it. Thanks. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Trying to learn and not freak out about what i have/don’t have (Yet). Spent weekend setting bump stops, front springs and replacing tie rod adj shaft. After that, alignment was piece of cake.

 

[jjvw]

Got it. Thanks. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Trying to learn and not freak out about what i have/don’t have (Yet). Spent weekend setting bump stops, front springs and replacing tie rod adj shaft. After that, alignment was piece of cake.

To play devil's advocate, the reason to drop these two parts is to restore the range of motion to the drag link tie rod ends after a taller spring lift. Many aftermarket steering links use TRE's that are at a right angle to the drag link, similar to stock. Synergy is a popular example.

Perhaps there is some merit there at taller lift heights for certain steering links and track bars. I don't know, because my Currie (now Rock Jock) steering bends the ends of the drag link to restore the range of motion to the TRE's to match a reasonable 4" spring lift. Problem solved, nothing needs to be dropped and up travel is not compromised. Better Jeep through better design.

 

[AndyG]

Mine is sitting at a perfectly ordinary 4" spring lift using the stock pitman arm and track bar mount. There is no bump steer.

My 06 is the same. Lift height doesn't predicate a dropped pitman arm at all.. those things are on the market to complement the dropped track bar mount , that is on the market to complement the dropped pitman arm .. in other words , erroneous thinking has made it all the way to the consumer ... And is probably fueled by a one size fits all sort of mindset.

Even Rough Country has finally came out with a good track bar that works with the stock Mount and may be on the cusp of starting to figure things out...a decade or so late.

 

[Schu2787]

it sure seems to be true that “you get what you pay for”. Forgive my ignorance but “TRE” is?

 

[jjvw]

it sure seems to be true that “you get what you pay for”. Forgive my ignorance but “TRE” is?

Tie Rod End

It doesn't get mentioned often enough. Currie really understands how to lift a Jeep and do it well.

 

[Schu2787]

Should have known that one. Replaced two this weekend.

 

[jjvw]

My 06 is the same. Lift height doesn't predicate a dropped pitman arm at all.. those things are on the market to complement the dropped track bar mount , that is on the market to complement the dropped pitman arm .. in other words , erroneous thinking has made it all the way to the consumer ... And is probably fueled by a one size fits all sort of mindset.

Even Rough Country has finally came out with a good track bar that works with the stock Mount and may be on the cusp of starting to figure things out...a decade or so late.

Let's say there is an otherwise well built TJ with a 6" spring lift on stock axles that is in need of steering links and a track bar. Currie/Rock Jock is still going to be the better option because the range of motion has been largely reset at the drag link. If dropped stuff isn't needed at a 2" lift, then it still isn't needed at a 6" lift with Currie steering and track bar.

 

[AndyG]

Let's say there is an otherwise well built TJ with a 6" spring lift on stock axles that is in need of steering links. Currie/Rock Jock is still going to be the better option because the range of motion has been reset at the drag link. If dropped stuff isn't needed at a 2" lift, then it still isn't needed at a 6" lift with Currie steering and track bar.

Exactly. It really isn't a matter of you get what you pay for... It's a matter of parts being put on the market that aren't needed.... By one of the manufacturers who has a strong presence here in the South.

I understand that 100% And I'm just trying to understand it all more.

As far as the lift itself ... If I had it to do over again I probably wouldn't do it over again... I've got a mix of Rancho ,Rough Country, Savvy , Moog and JKS parts , as well as springs of unknown origin.

Not because I got on here and acted, but more because I acted , then got on here and learned later.

This is not just the first place I go to for crazy questions..it's pretty much the only place I go to. This forum has been a real asset to me as a TJ enthusiast. I've been able to create a good driving , good wheeling TJ, thanks to good people on here.

Where all the smug responses come from, I don't know ... Maybe I'm just getting some of what I put out back to me .

 

[Rubicon John]

Exactly. It really isn't a matter of you get what you pay for... It's a matter of parts being put on the market that aren't needed.... By one of the manufacturers who has a strong presence here in the South.

I understand that 100% And I'm just trying to understand it all more.

As far as the lift itself ... If I had it to do over again I probably wouldn't do it over again... I've got a mix of Rancho ,Rough Country, Savvy , Moog and JKS parts , as well as springs of unknown origin.

Not because I got on here and acted, but more because I acted , then got on here and learned later.

This is not just the first place I go to for crazy questions..it's pretty much the only place I go to. This forum has been a real asset to me as a TJ enthusiast. I've been able to create a good driving , good wheeling TJ, thanks to good people on here.

Where all the smug responses come from, I don't know ... Maybe I'm just getting some of what I put out back to me .

With smugness comes truth on this forum. But I love to give a little attitude in return.

 

[AndyG]

With smugness comes truth on this forum. But I love to give a little attitude in return.

Well the truth was nobody knew the answer but Blaine ..correct angles, no bumpsteer , regardless of set up that is going to hold true .

Will be interesting to put strings on it .. good suggestion .