Questions on the Magnum V8 swap

Yes the tuning part works both ways. You could take a 5.2 PCM and tune it as a 5.9 or the other way around. But since you have a 2002 you can only use a PCM from a 2001 or 2002 as they are the only ones that are PCI. Just know if you don't make it emission legal again technically you can sell it. All that is federal emissions stuff so if they don't test locally it doesn't matter. But if for any reason they started to then you couldn't register it or drive it on the streets until you made it compliant.
Okay thanks for the heads up. I’m gonna try to keep it all my year as much as possible. I’ll post or see what else I need to figure out as it comes. Thanks for all the help! God bless man, you’ve been an amazing and help and everyone else as well.
 
So whatever comes up, I’m gonna grab and get every single part and aspect with it. Doing all this to start formulating a game plan on it.

Read some of those build threads I posted as most of them have good lists that of the parts you need. It's easier to have a parts rig sitting there to take everything off of but for many that isn't possible.

Now when I was getting ready to do my swap I'd bought a engine and transmission from a Dodge van and the guy who did the swap for me did tell me that the van engines were not as desirable but I honestly can't remember why that was.
 
Read some of those build threads I posted as most of them have good lists that of the parts you need. It's easier to have a parts rig sitting there to take everything off of but for many that isn't possible.

Now when I was getting ready to do my swap I'd bought a engine and transmission from a Dodge van and the guy who did the swap for me did tell me that the van engines were not as desirable but I honestly can't remember why that was.
Well, maybe the stigma is the issue. You know, if your engine was ever installed in say, a minivan, then you’re running a minivan engine….

THAT’S RIGHT! YOU HEARD ME JK’s!
 
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Well, maybe the stigma is the issue. You know, if your engine was ever installed in say, a minivan, then you’re running a minivan engine….

THAT’S RIGHT! YOU HEARD ME JK’s!

Well at least I could say it came from a 3/4 ton van..... Unlike the JK which we all know and {LOVE} hehehe.
 
Okay just to add to this for people who search in the future here is a YouTube on the Dodge magnum 360 V-8.

Compared to factory numbers this isn't too bad.



He's got some other videos on the 360 also where he tries out different exhaust manifolds & headers.
 
I am considering an engine swap and I think the magnum makes the most sense. I have a 1999 wrangler that a recently put 37 in tires on and I need more power but I don’t need a race jeep. I’m 49, I just want to get up the mountain to Flagstaff a bit easier. I know everyone says 37s are a recipe for disaster on a TJ but I have an 8.8 and dana 44 with 4.56 gears so I think I am fine, and I don’t think regearing is the answer either.

So here are my questions:

Is there any advantage between the 5.2 and 5.9? I had a 93 Dakota with the 5.2 years ago and I loved it, but the larger displacement is attractive if I am going to do the swap. However, the rated power is not that much different and the 5.2 is much less expensive. I’m sure the 5.9 has a flatter torque curve, but other than that, are there advantages of one over the other? If there are any cheep and easy ways to boost power, I would be interested in that as well.

I want to keep my AX15. I have read that with the Dakota bellhousing it will bolt to my trans and I don’t have to move the trans… but what about the other end? I know the ZJs came with a 4.0 and a magnum in some years. Am I hoping for too much when I hope I can bolt to the stock motor mount locations? I don’t weld so if I have to have new mounting locations I will have to have that done by a professional.

I have seen conflicting info about the wiring harness. In one video the guy said he used the magnum wiring harness for one of the three plugs into the ECU but the other two were the original wrangler harnesses. In other places, in fact in this thread I believe, it says the wiring harness has to be modified. But maybe this is just to accommodate an auto trans borrowed from the doner vehicle? Can I really just use the magnum motor harness and plug it into a magnum ecu? I also believe from what I have read that I need a 2000 or 1999 ecu. I understand I will need to have it flashed to work with a manual trans.

Does AC fit? I understand this can be difficult with some swaps, but I live in Phoenix. AC is a must! I know the ZJ brackets are preferred, but I want to know that the AC will fit before I decide to do this.

Finally, will I have a check engine light? We have emissions testing here, so I have to be able to pass.



Thank you in advance for any info you can provide.
 
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Have you read any of the other posts in this thread? They will answer a lot of your questions.

I am considering an engine swap and I think the magnum makes the most sense. I have a 1999 wrangler that a recently put 37 in tires on and I need more power but I don’t need a race jeep. I’m 49, I just want to get up the mountain to Flagstaff a bit easier. I know everyone says 37s are a recipe for disaster on a TJ but I have an 8.8 and dana 44 with 4.56 gears so I think I am fine, and I don’t think regearing is the answer either.

Regearing would be part of the answer. 5.13 or even better 5.38 gears would help out a LOT. Even with a V-8 you really need to have at least 5.13 gears for those tires.

So here are my questions:

Is there any advantage between the 5.2 and 5.9? I had a 93 Dakota with the 5.2 years ago and I loved it, but the larger displacement is attractive if I am going to do the swap. However, the rated power is not that much different and the 5.2 is much less expensive. I’m sure the 5.9 has a flatter torque curve, but other than that, are there advantages of one over the other? If there are any cheep and easy ways to boost power, I would be interested in that as well.

Yes you will notice a difference between a 5.2 & 5.9 but in a TJ I think the 5.2 is enough but if you don't want to regear then the 5.9 might be better.
As for power adders to the magnum engines the 2 main points are cam & heads. You can gain a lot just by fixing those.

I want to keep my AX15. I have read that with the Dakota bellhousing it will bolt to my trans and I don’t have to move the trans… but what about the other end? I know the ZJs came with a 4.0 and a magnum in some years. Am I hoping for too much when I hope I can bolt to the stock motor mount locations? I don’t weld so if I have to have new mounting locations I will have to have that done by a professional.

Yes the AX15 will bolt up to a magnum engine if you use a 92-98 Dakota bellhousing. But this isn't just bolt it up & you're done. If you put the new motor mounts in the prescribed location your transmission is moved forward about 2" so you have to modify your shifter. You'll also need to shorten your front driveshaft & lengthen your rear driveshaft.
No the stock motor mounts do not work. You need to get new mounts from Advance Adapter or Novak. They have to be welded on but if you don't weld you can hire a mobile wilding service to come and do the needed welding.

I have seen conflicting info about the wiring harness. In one video the guy said he used the magnum wiring harness for one of the three plugs into the ECU but the other two were the original wrangler harnesses. In other places, in fact in this thread I believe, it says the wiring harness has to be modified. But maybe this is just to accommodate an auto trans borrowed from the doner vehicle? Can I really just use the magnum motor harness and plug it into a magnum ecu? I also believe from what I have read that I need a 2000 or 1999 ecu. I understand I will need to have it flashed to work with a manual trans.

There isn't any conflicting information about the wiring.
You have to blend the two harnesses together no matter if you are doing a automatic or manual swap. What is different is the two ways of going about this.
Most people doing a manual swap will add the needed injector wires and other sensor wires to the TJ harness.
People doing an automatic swap will use the Dodge harness & add the TJ harness to make it work but either way you are blending the two harnesses together. If you aren't OK with doing this you can send both harnesses off to Hotwire & they will make you a harness for about $1300.
You need a 1998 to 2001 PCM (ECU) to make the engine run BUT if you have smog checks then you may need to use a 1999-2001 PCM. You won't have to have it flashed IF you get one from a manual truck. You can't use one from a Durango or Dakota as most of them have a SKIM or oter type of alarm that makes them not work. You need one from a Ram truck that was as bare boned as possible.

Does AC fit? I understand this can be difficult with some swaps, but I live in Phoenix. AC is a must! I know the ZJ brackets are preferred, but I want to know that the AC will fit before I decide to do this.

Yes you can have A/C but you have to have custom lines made & your accumulator has to be moved or use a different one as there isn't room where it's mounted stock.

Finally, will I have a check engine light? We have emissions testing here, so I have to be able to pass.

If you do the swap correctly NO you will not have any "check engine" lights. You can add the O2 sensors just like they were stock on the Dodge and everything else for the emissions system. The only time I have a check engine light is when I am having a issue.


Thank you in advance for any info you can provide.

Here was my Jeep with 38x12.5x16.5 TSL SX tires & I'm running 5.13 gears & a automatic transmission. This was with a 5.2 but I'm doing a 5.9 now.

IMG_2747-1.jpg



This is a very informative thread over on Jeep Forum that you should read. It's a long thread but there is a wealth of information in it.

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/wrangler-magnum-v8-discussion.1365878/


The short of all this is that the V-8 swap isn't the end all answer to your want for more power. Yes it will help a lot but will require other modifications.
 
Wildman, thank you for the info. I do have some follow up questions that I hope you will be kind enough to respond to.

I don’t fully understand you comment about the “new motor mounts” are you talking about the new weld in mounts when you say it will move the trans forward 2 inches? One of the things that made me decide on magnum is that I read that you can keep the trans in the stock location. I understand that sometimes you CAN do something but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD do it. Are you saying that I SHOULD to weld in new mounts in a position that will move the transmission forward 2 inches? That will add a lot of cost to the process. It might make me consider a different swap. It seems that if I am moving the transmission, the only benefit of this over a LS or or Hemi swap is the ease of the computer integration.

How easy is it to locate the motor mounts? Is this something where I need to get the new engine put in place and have someone tack weld the mounts, then pull the motor and have them come back to welded them in properly? Or is there a template where I can pull the 4.0 and call a welder and have the new mounts put in all at once? I am a planner so I want to understand what I am doing before I pull my engine.
 
Wildman, thank you for the info. I do have some follow up questions that I hope you will be kind enough to respond to.

I don’t fully understand you comment about the “new motor mounts” are you talking about the new weld in mounts when you say it will move the trans forward 2 inches? One of the things that made me decide on magnum is that I read that you can keep the trans in the stock location. I understand that sometimes you CAN do something but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD do it. Are you saying that I SHOULD to weld in new mounts in a position that will move the transmission forward 2 inches? That will add a lot of cost to the process. It might make me consider a different swap. It seems that if I am moving the transmission, the only benefit of this over a LS or or Hemi swap is the ease of the computer integration.

You have to replace the stock motor mounts with new ones no matter which engine you choose to go with. Be it a Magnum, Hemi or LS they all require you to install new motor mounts. Some are a little easier to work with over others but there isn't any way to reuse your stock 4 cyl or 6 cyl motor mounts period.
With the magnum engine if you choose to use a manual transmission it moves the t-case forward. If you choose to use the 46RE auto transmission then your t-case stays in the stock location. Yes people have beat the shit out of their firewall to fit the manual transmission without moving the t-case but IMO it's not worth the effort. And if you think the only benefit to the magnum was not moving the transmission then you need to read more.
Both a LS & Hemi swap will cost you $$$$ more than a magnum swap.

How easy is it to locate the motor mounts? Is this something where I need to get the new engine put in place and have someone tack weld the mounts, then pull the motor and have them come back to welded them in properly? Or is there a template where I can pull the 4.0 and call a welder and have the new mounts put in all at once? I am a planner so I want to understand what I am doing before I pull my engine.

Advance Adapters makes their motor mounts to key into a hole on the frame. You remove the stock motor mounts and weld in the new motor mounts.

https://www.advanceadapters.com/5442

As for the Holley motor mounts from what I've read you can drop them over 4.0 mounts if that was the engine you have. If you're replacing a 4 cyl engine you'll have to figure it out.


I know that thread I linked was LONG but there is a ton of information in it that would answer a lot of your questions.
 
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I do apprecaite the info and yes the link is long but as I read it there are some pople saying they kept there manual trans in the same place and others that say they couldn't make it fit. One said sliding the trans forward was super easy - sounds like they just elongated the existing mounting adjustments. Others mention cutting up their center console. I just don't know what to expect. I really don't want to cut up anything on the inside or have my shifter in a position where I am hitting the dash as I go into 1st,3rd and 5th. Does anyone have a stock AX15 hookedup that can give me some insights? I know some TJs have the nv3550. One of those who retained to factory position did say it was a nv3550. Google says the nv3550 is only .2 inches longer than the AX15 which doesn't seem like enough tomake a difference.
 
I do apprecaite the info and yes the link is long but as I read it there are some pople saying they kept there manual trans in the same place and others that say they couldn't make it fit. One said sliding the trans forward was super easy - sounds like they just elongated the existing mounting adjustments. Others mention cutting up their center console. I just don't know what to expect. I really don't want to cut up anything on the inside or have my shifter in a position where I am hitting the dash as I go into 1st,3rd and 5th. Does anyone have a stock AX15 hookedup that can give me some insights? I know some TJs have the nv3550. One of those who retained to factory position did say it was a nv3550. Google says the nv3550 is only .2 inches longer than the AX15 which doesn't seem like enough tomake a difference.

If you want to keep the transmission/t-case in the stock position then you will have to clearance the firewall to make it fit & trying to work on the distributor is a PITA. The easier option is to mount the motor mounts where AA say you should which moves the transmission/t-case forward. When doing that I've read that using a Barnes 4WD skid plate is easier. Then you have to modify your shift to move it back to the stock hole in your tunnel

Here are two examples of how that was done.

#1 is a little nicer but takes more work.

Shifter Mod 2.jpg


Shifter Mod 3.jpg


#2 is not as nice but does the same thing.

Shifter Mod.jpg


If you go over into the build thread area there are other members who have done the swap also & a few I think who used the manual. You are just moving the shifter back into your opening in the transmission tunnel.
 
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If you are dead set on leaving your transmission in the stock location then you will bolt the transmission to the engine and lower it into place and connect the transmission to the t-case and see where you have to dent the firewall.

I will tell you that the Dakota bellhousings are getting very rare and where they used to sell for under $100 are now going for $300-500. And as far as I know there isn't anyone making one aftermarket. The other option is to find a Ram with a manual transmission which is the NV3500 and use it instead.
 
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Thank you for all the info. I am in search of a doner motor right now. It sounds like the bellhousing may be the hardest to source so I'll start looking for that too.

I found a friend of a friend who is a professional welder and lives about 5 miles from me. I'm going to just tow the jeep over there for the motor mounts. I suspect he can do the shifter modification as well.
 
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Thank you for all the info. I am in search of a doner motor right now. It sounds like the bellhousing may be the hardest to source so I'll start looking for that too.

I found a friend of a friend who is a professional welder and lives about 5 miles from me. I'm going to just tow the jeep over there for the motor mounts. I suspect he can do the shifter modification as well.

Good luck with the swap and when you get all the parts gathered make sure you start a build thread in the

https://wranglertjforum.com/forums/tj-build-threads-members-rides.127/

so we can follow along and offer up help also.
 
I am getting married in May, so things are busy right now. I also live in Phoenix and only work on things outside from June to August if it is an emergency, so this is probably a September project.
 
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Some have asked about the strength of the Dodge magnum V-8 engine. Here's part of an answer. What happened with 20lbs of boost on a stock bottom end.

 
are there any year limits with the bell housing? Found a local Dakota with a manual and v6 that is being parted out. It is a 2002.