Savvy Mid Arm Questions

[D's Jeep Wrld]

The calculator everyone uses is only good for a static load on flat ground. That it not the context where you start to be interested in antisquat.

So where would be a good place go start? So far the calculator I've been using is pretty detailed (The one from busted knuckle offroad)shows my antisquat values throughout the suspension travel. even showing where my pinion angle would be at specific points of my suspension travel which helps me figure out where I'd need to be rather than where I want to be in a sense

So far I've been toying around with the calculator and I learned that when I want to be at a certain antisquat value that I'd like it drastically changes how the pinion moves too which is important,Right ? Get where im going ? When im shooting for a certain number it changes my roll center,instant center and my pinion angle etc.

I just wanf a lick of that Info on it since people talk about the Geometry on how great it is and how it leads to it driving good,I just wanna get schooled on that.

 

[rasband]

So where would be a good place go start?

Realistically speaking, unless you're going fully custom - your place to start is what's available.

* OEM (short arms)
* Jeep West
* Midarm (Blaine/Savvy)
* Long Arm

Leaning largely into the experience of both the people putting these out and those of us that have any of them (and/or wheeled with people running any of them). There's reasons why each of these are abandoned unless people don't wheel where they matter or they attribute the result to something else (note, again unless they are so fully custom it's not the same discussion as we can have on otherwise the same jeeps):

* OEM - there's a reason why most of us that rock crawl go away from this, so it's clearly not the happy zone
* Long arm - anyone wheeling with long arm people on any climbs can see how unstable they are, there's really no real justification for it.

so that leaves us with these:

* JW
* Midarm

My evidence is anecdotal, because the numbers really don't matter when the other evidence is obvious. Watching three otherwise identical rigs wheel the same lines on the same obstacles was enough to convince me to get the midarm on my rig.

I am not familiar enough with you on the forum yet to know what you run - but I wonder if you're focused on solving issues that you don't have yet? Are you hopping and losing traction? Are you not making obstacles because of suspension, or lines?

Just my $0.02 is to make sure you're chasing solving problems, not meeting numbers.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Realistically speaking, unless you're going fully custom - your place to start is what's available.

* OEM (short arms)
* Jeep West
* Midarm (Blaine/Savvy)
* Long Arm

Leaning largely into the experience of both the people putting these out and those of us that have any of them (and/or wheeled with people running any of them). There's reasons why each of these are abandoned unless people don't wheel where they matter or they attribute the result to something else (note, again unless they are so fully custom it's not the same discussion as we can have on otherwise the same jeeps):

* OEM - there's a reason why most of us that rock crawl go away from this, so it's clearly not the happy zone
* Long arm - anyone wheeling with long arm people on any climbs can see how unstable they are, there's really no real justification for it.

so that leaves us with these:

* JW
* Midarm

My evidence is anecdotal, because the numbers really don't matter when the other evidence is obvious. Watching three otherwise identical rigs wheel the same lines on the same obstacles was enough to convince me to get the midarm on my rig.

Edit- Picture scaling messed up my word placement
Some seem to have read right over what I said.
I'm going custom. Originally I was gonna go with some triangulated 4 link brackets fromIron man fab I like them because it allows for adjustability on the uppers

As I mentioned before, I've been waiting on those brackets for over 2 months (gonna just cancel my order) So I figured I could just do a double triangulated setup,Why? Because why not,It's something I could do and try something new. But I just wanted some pointers on the "single triangulated" stuff

And for the front I'm gonna be rocking a savvy 3 link truss as I already have it and make it fit on my Hp44 and most likely bug Gerald and buy the front frame brackets

I am not familiar enough with you on the forum yet to know what you run - but I wonder if you're focused on solving issues that you don't have yet? Are you hopping and losing traction? Are you not making obstacles because of suspension, or lines?

Just my $0.02 is to make sure you're chasing solving problems, not meeting numbers.

I did have wheel hop at times as to why I went with the Jeeps West kit,at the time it seemed like a good solution that worked
And I also went with those brackets because of "better handling" how? With the factory Geometry it would cause a wheel to lift up when hitting a sharp turn,The JW brackets stopped that from happening on the same turns which I liked
And ride comfort? I noticed that going over bumps it felt pretty smooth

I'm just trying to see where else I could improve ?
And here are some reasons why I went with the JW brackets
1. Why not,I wanted a small project while I did the savvy control arms
2 The advertised better Geometry,better handling&reduced wheel hop
3. I wanted beefier brackets (I noticed that the factory brackets were warped some,the metal was wanting to rip off the welds)
4. These eliminated my need of a track bar relocation bracket which
So all that forked up I was convinced that "hey instead of dropping 50 bucks on a track bar relocation bracket and spending another 60 bucks on some barnes replacement brackets" I could just put that towards some beefier brackets that could improve my Lj so I got em to try them out

 

[rasband]

And here are some reasons why I went with the JW brackets
1. Why not,I wanted a small project while I did the savvy control arms
2 The advertised better Geometry,better handling&reduced wheel hop
3. I wanted beefier brackets (I noticed that the factory brackets were warped some,the metal was wanting to rip off the welds)
4. These eliminated my need of a track bar relocation bracket which
So all that forked up I was convinced that "hey instead of dropping 50 bucks on a track bar relocation bracket and spending another 60 bucks on some barnes replacement brackets" I could just put that towards some beefier brackets that could improve my Lj so I got em to try them out

I've got some blinker fluid for you!

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

I've got some blinker fluid for you!

Man cut the bullshit.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Maybe After I'm done building the rear suspension,Then I'll get the info I wanted after the fact and get criticized That's how seems to go sometimes....

 

[Jamesval035]

Best bet is it do a ton of research, and start the build. It’s all trial and error as you go along, especially when one doesn’t build things like this often or it isn’t their daily job.

 

[jjvw]

Edit- Picture scaling messed up my word placement
Some seem to have read right over what I said.
I'm going custom. Originally I was gonna go with some triangulated 4 link brackets fromIron man fab I like them because it allows for adjustability on the uppers
View attachment 674424
As I mentioned before, I've been waiting on those brackets for over 2 months (gonna just cancel my order) So I figured I could just do a double triangulated setup,Why? Because why not,It's something I could do and try something new. But I just wanted some pointers on the "single triangulated" stuff

And for the front I'm gonna be rocking a savvy 3 link truss as I already have it and make it fit on my Hp44 and most likely bug Gerald and buy the front frame brackets

I did have wheel hop at times as to why I went with the Jeeps West kit,at the time it seemed like a good solution that worked
And I also went with those brackets because of "better handling" how? With the factory Geometry it would cause a wheel to lift up when hitting a sharp turn,The JW brackets stopped that from happening on the same turns which I liked
And ride comfort? I noticed that going over bumps it felt pretty smooth

I'm just trying to see where else I could improve ?
And here are some reasons why I went with the JW brackets
1. Why not,I wanted a small project while I did the savvy control arms
2 The advertised better Geometry,better handling&reduced wheel hop
3. I wanted beefier brackets (I noticed that the factory brackets were warped some,the metal was wanting to rip off the welds)
4. These eliminated my need of a track bar relocation bracket which
So all that forked up I was convinced that "hey instead of dropping 50 bucks on a track bar relocation bracket and spending another 60 bucks on some barnes replacement brackets" I could just put that towards some beefier brackets that could improve my Lj so I got em to try them out

In all your research, why does the Savvy mid arm require a body lift?

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

In all your research, why does the Savvy mid arm require a body lift?

The upper control arm brackets on the frame side would hit the tub

 

[jjvw]

The upper control arm bracket on the frame side would hit the tub

Do those brackets require a body lift?

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Do those brackets require a body lift?

Yes

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

To add
And lemme guess,More link separation at the frame. As to why the brackets are taller requiring a body lift

 

[jjvw]

Yes

Incorrect

 

[jjvw]

To add
And lemme guess,More link separation at the frame. As to why the brackets are taller requiring a body lift

On the front, higher frame side uppers allow for the upper and lower arms to be parallel in order to preserve caster during the suspension travel.

On the rear, raised frame side uppers allow for the instant center to be located further forward in space.

Then you can ask yourself why the designer of the savvy mid arm did not concern himself with putting height adjustment holes on the brackets.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

On the front, higher frame side uppers allow for the upper and lower arms to be parallel in order to preserve caster during the suspension travel.

On the rear, raised frame side uppers allow for the instant center to be located further forward in space.

Then you can ask yourself why the designer of the savvy mid arm did not concern himself with putting height adjustment holes on the brackets.

Holy shit, Finally.....some credible words that are actually closer to what I was asking and trying to talk about too.
But Thanks. Had to jump through some hurdles of bullshit,but we're getting somewhere now

 

[jjvw]

Holy shit, Finally.....some credible words that are actually closer to what I was asking and trying to talk about too.
But Thanks. Had to jump through some hurdles of bullshit,but we're getting somewhere now

There is a reason why I prefaced this part with questioning your research.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

There is a reason why I prefaced this part with questioning your research.

Yeah I kept on reading that "install a body lift 1st" but that's just to make it easier to access the brackets.....
Edit- Its super tight with no body lift

 

[Weasellee]

Man cut the bullshit.

Don’t worry. It’s just the cheap stuff from Temu

 

[jjvw]

Yeah I kept on reading that "install a body lift 1st" but that's just to make it easier to access the brackets.....
Edit- Its super tight with no body liftView attachment 674627

No. The Savvy mid arm requires a body lift to fit under the tub.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Don’t worry. It’s just the cheap stuff from Temu

Nahh only the best from Chris fix