Self etching primer prep

[Rustynj]

NJ LJ with surface rust on frame and a body. I’ve got my wire brush and cans of self etching ready to rock.

1 -Am I trying to remove all surface rust or just rough up everything - or both?

2- is it okay to coat the entire undercarriage? Want to keep it safe from winters to come.

 

[jeepins]

If you don't remove the rust, the rust is still there no matter what you put on top of it. And unless you're planning on topcoating the primer you put on, it's only temporary.

 

[Rustynj]

If you don't remove the rust, the rust is still there no matter what you put on top of it. And unless you're planning on topcoating the primer you put on, it's only temporary.

How temporary- like do this every year temporary?

 

[someguysjeep]

wire brush is good, wire wheel on a grinder is good, media blaster is better and they even have acid gel.

the best results will come from removing all you can, then painting. anything you can't reach or get to, keep damp with fluid film.

 

[someguysjeep]

How temporary- like do this every year temporary?

i do every yr, thats the only way to be sure what you did stays gone and whats new gets stopped fast.

encapsulation products do not work, you gotta get rid of it.

 

[jeepins]

Think of how it left the factory is the best way to describe it. Closest you can get back to that within reason, longer it will last. Primers are meant to be topcoated. It's what helps protect the metal and allow the topcoat to adhere better so you're sort of just stopping midway through the process. Topcoats handle the elements better whether it's on the body or frame. Like @someguysjeep says, you'll be doing this every year otherwise. In the autobody world they say an awesome paint job is 90% prep work.

 

[Rustynj]

Think of how it left the factory is the best way to describe it. Closest you can get back to that within reason, longer it will last. Primers are meant to be topcoated. It's what helps protect the metal and allow the topcoat to adhere better so you're sort of just stopping midway through the process. Topcoats handle the elements better whether it's on the body or frame. Like @someguysjeep says, you'll be doing this every year otherwise. In the autobody world they say an awesome paint job is 90% prep work.

It’s okay to topcoat everything under there? Would a bedliner do the trick?

 

[jeepins]

Topcoat would be anything like a paint, bedliner, undercoat, etc. that fits the area you're working on. Personally I wouldn't use a bedliner material because that stuff would easily hide years of rust and trap it making it worse unless you completely sandblasted that frame or panel and again, started from something similar to a factory fresh piece of bare metal.

Sand, wire brush, grind that rust to bare metal, prime & paint. You just have to determine what you're going to use.

 

[someguysjeep]

It’s okay to topcoat everything under there? Would a bedliner do the trick?

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

that's the encapsulation trap. anything that will put any layer of anything over anything will trap something.

primer and paint and it cannot hide from you. any other coating will allow it to grow below the coating and in 2yrs you'll have a mess to strip b4 you can repair.

bedliner, Por-15, anything like those just hide shit. it's meant to smother it out, but does not work well enough.


your local auto parts store should have some acid gell i like that crap it'll get into nooks and crannys and eat that crap away clean. maybe a rust converter might work but you don't want that going onto any clean steel and should be reserved for larger hard to reach areas.

 

[Irun]

FWIW, this is an area I've acquired some expertise in over the years. Self etching primer should only be used on new or cleaned up metal. If you have rust, clean it up with a wire wheel kit and drill, or a 120 grit flap disc for heavy scale. I scuff up the frame with a 220 or higher sandpaper, clean it with lacquer thinner, spray rust reformer over any rust, then top coat it. Below are the products I use and results I get every time.

Also, as @someguysjeep said, you need to stay on top of this with an annual re-treat, and never use bedliner or other products like that. You're just asking for trouble later.

 

[someguysjeep]

FWIW, this is an area I've acquired some expertise in over the years. Self etching primer should only be used on new or cleaned up metal. If you have rust, clean it up with a wire wheel kit and drill, or a 120 grit flap disc for heavy scale. I scuff up the frame with a 220 or higher sandpaper, clean it with lacquer thinner, spray rust reformer over any rust, then top coat it. Below are the products I use and results I get every time.

Also, as @someguysjeep said, you need to stay on top of this with an annual re-treat, and never use bedliner or other products like that. You're just asking for trouble later.

View attachment 273799

View attachment 273800View attachment 273801

never seen that rust reformer on the shelves. it works well? i don't have much faith in converters.

 

[Superjay5]

never seen that rust reformer on the shelves. it works well? i don't have much faith in converters.

Most rust reformers are just muriatic acid.
Self etching primer also contains acid, it’s the etching part of the primer. It’s a chemical process, you can trust it.

I was a big fan of self etching primers, but over the years I feel a lot of the acid and zinc has pulled out of it for safety reasons. I now prefer epoxy primers. That’s not to say you can’t etch the metal with muriatic acid first.

 

[Superjay5]

FWIW, this is an area I've acquired some expertise in over the years. Self etching primer should only be used on new or cleaned up metal. If you have rust, clean it up with a wire wheel kit and drill, or a 120 grit flap disc for heavy scale. I scuff up the frame with a 220 or higher sandpaper, clean it with lacquer thinner, spray rust reformer over any rust, then top coat it. Below are the products I use and results I get every time.

Also, as @someguysjeep said, you need to stay on top of this with an annual re-treat, and never use bedliner or other products like that. You're just asking for trouble later.

View attachment 273799

View attachment 273800View attachment 273801

Your process is good, but I would not use lacquer thinner as a surface prep. I would use a wax and degreaser. Lacquer will leave a film behind that will cause adhesion issues. I use Preps All wax and grease remover, works good. Can be found in a lot of stores and is about 20 bucks a gallon

 

[Irun]

Your process is good, but I would not use lacquer thinner as a surface prep. I would use a wax and degreaser. Lacquer will leave a film behind that will cause adhesion issues. I use Preps All wax and grease remover, works good. Can be found in a lot of stores and is about 20 bucks a gallon

Not if you wash it with it with this! I left that step out, and have never had any adhesion issues.

 

[Irun]

never seen that rust reformer on the shelves. it works well? i don't have much faith in converters.

I've been using it for years and trust it. That said, I'm also obsessed with keeping rust away. I go over my Jeeps at least once a year, sometimes more, if needed. The stuff I buy can be found at Walmart for a little over $5 a can. To be clear, I only use it on rusty areas, after I clean them up.

 

[Superjay5]

Not if you wash it with it with this! I left that step out, and have never had any adhesion issues.

View attachment 273807

Why use a product not designed for surface prep, only to follow it up with another product not designed for surface prep? You seem to go thru a lot of prep, which always key with paint, which is why you get good adhesion.

But I would just eliminate those steps, Just get a good paint prep product. We used lacquer thinner for years. Wasn’t until the PPG reps brought it to our attention it shouldn't be used and it would void any paint warranty

 

[Irun]

Why use a product not designed for surface prep, only to follow it up with another product not designed for surface prep? You seem to go thru a lot of prep, which always key with paint, which is why you get good adhesion.

But I would just eliminate those steps, Just get a good paint prep product. We used lacquer thinner for years. Wasn’t until the PPG reps brought it to our attention it shouldn't be used and it would void any paint warranty

I'm not opposed to learning something new. All I can say is I've used it for paint prep for more that three decades with no ill effect. This includes painting vehicles.

 

[HornedToad]

I’ll add my two cents on paint prep to support what has been said. For bare metal paint prep I used solvents like lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, and acetone for years and always had subpar results and eventual peeling here and there. I started using detergents (mostly simple green and sometimes dishsoap) about two years ago and the primer sticks so much better it’s amazing. Just make sure and rinse it off with clean water and let it air dry.

 

[fourpointzero]

@Rustynj I too live in Jersey. Im sure you're aware of how municipalities layer their streets with chemicals. That stuff gets caught in crevices and inside our frames. If its not cleaned off and protected, you'll be doing a frame swap or body work in very little time. A garage is also a frame saver. But Im extreme, though. I dont drive my TJ in the winter.

You must be vigil with rust on a TJ. Regular cleaning, retouching and a fall coating of Fluid Film or CRC corrosion inhibitor on and inside your frame is imperative to keep rust at bay. I use the following three products: Fluid Film, WD-40 (for quick touch ups) and CRC corrosion inhibitor: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXYA0/?tag=wranglerorg-20 Search them on YouTube, and you'll see that users have had great success with FF (or other lanolin products) and CRC. Ive even coated lightly rusted metals with either FF or the CRC and have seen the rust suspended. Meaning it remains but doesn't continue to grow or spred.

My process:
When I spot any kind of corrosion starting to show on my frame, I hit it with a rust dissolver (Rustoleum brand) which is basically Phosphoric Acid in gel form. There's quit a few brands with that ingredient that work similarly or possibly better. I like the gel because it can be applied from all angles and it tends to "stick" or hold to locations where applied. Then I wipe it down and apply either FF or CRC. Painting anything, I don't do until the summer. Just because temperatures are ideal and when its not humid, you yield better results. The final step is always either FF or CRC.

 

[taylormade73]

This shit is magic.