Steering Issues with High Steer

XJCJTJ

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Supporting Member
Feb 13, 2019
26
California
I recently did a lot of work on my jeep. Swapped front and rear axles, D44/F8.8,(w/detroit), 2.5" spring lift, 35s, D20 T-case, drivelines, etc. What I found is that when I go over a larger bump on a paved road, the jeep ends up going left pretty hard. At about 45 mph I was able to correct back, but I was mostly into the other lane by the time I got the veer stopped and it took a while to correct back.

My front setup is a D44 from a waggy with a high steer arm on a set of chevy knuckles. The tie rod is flipped. Ball joints, drag link/tie rod ends, sway bar link bushings are all new. Front axle was setup with 7 deg of camber at ride height, Tires are toed in about 1/8-3/16" on flat ground. Tire pressure is about 26-28psi in all tires. Stock control arms because I didn't need to use adjustable arms to rotate the axle. Any ideas about what would cause it to veer left going over a bump like that?

Should note that there is no death wobble and steering feels about like stock otherwise.
 
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jjvw

Your Jeep's name is Karen now.
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Feb 17, 2018
5,351
Colorado, USA
Pics of the full steering and track bar would likely show a lot. Where is the axle side track bar mount located?
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
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Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
I recently did a lot of work on my jeep. Swapped front and rear axles, D44/F8.8,(w/detroit), 2.5" spring lift, 35s, D20 T-case, drivelines, etc. What I found is that when I go over a larger bump on a paved road, the jeep ends up going left pretty hard. At about 45 mph I was able to correct back, but I was mostly into the other lane by the time I got the veer stopped and it took a while to correct back.

My front setup is a D44 from a waggy with a high steer arm on a set of chevy knuckles. The tie rod is flipped. Ball joints, drag link/tie rod ends, sway bar link bushings are all new. Front axle was setup with 7 deg of camber at ride height, Tires are toed in about 1/8-3/16" on flat ground. Tire pressure is about 26-28psi in all tires. Stock control arms because I didn't need to use adjustable arms to rotate the axle. Any ideas about what would cause it to veer left going over a bump like that?

Should note that there is no death wobble and steering feels about like stock otherwise.
We need a few pictures of the front of your rig to try and figure out what is going on. MrBlaine is the go to guy for this type of stuff.
With the high steer as Jerry said what worked for stock isn't going to work anymore. Your drag link and track bar need to be as close as possible to the same length.

IMG_1038_zpsb133846c.jpg


IMG_0812.jpg


In this picture you can see the track bar behind the drag link. See how they are pretty much on the same plain? This is what you need.

IMGP0971.jpg
 
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Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
I am running a Wagoneer steering arm since they are a flat pitman arm. This helps to get the angles you need. My track bar frame end bracket is modified to move it up higher and then my axle end bracket is on top of the axle.
 
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XJCJTJ

XJCJTJ

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 13, 2019
26
California
Ok. That’s probably it. My drag link is almost flat. Track bar not so much.
fb32d3b2b861641c37836aec7cbf0790.jpg


I’ll see about adding a Chevy TRE that has a drag link tapered hole. That would lower the axle end of the drag link about 5”.
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
Parts Mike will sell you a Waggy pitman arm with whatever taper you need.

Or this arm.

You need to draw a straight line from your trackbar frame mount to axle mount. That is the angle you need your drag link to be also. I had to mess with mine a lot to get it correct.
That dropped pitman arm you are using is also part of the problem. Do you still have the stock arm? If you do try reinstalling it and see if that helps before buying new parts.

I can't tell is your trackbar adjustable? It looks like you are using the stock location for the axle end mount.
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
No it won’t be too low, the specific geometry that keeps the steering from being affected by driving around hitting bumps and curves is due to the relationship between the track bar and drag link - they need to be as close to parallel to each other and equal length as possible - keep in mind measuring from bolt hole to bolt hole not the actual bar. If you do this measurement you’ll see the drop pitman arm causes them to not be close to parallel as with a stock arm - meaning that as the suspension cycles over a bump or a curve the arc the axle moves in does not match the arc of the drag link and moves the wheel on its own. You want your components to be in sync and not fighting each other - with a stock track bar mount the pitman arm needs to be stock to keep the arc travel close and parallel.
82165


You’re original question about how the entire Jeep moves when steering is due to those angles not being close - they are fighting each other and moving the body as a result - not a good situation.
This post explains it better than I was doing.
 
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XJCJTJ

XJCJTJ

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Feb 13, 2019
26
California
Thank you for the explanation. That hill took me by surprise today. Before I let anyone else drive it I want things to be working right. I was up till 2 adapting the sway bar links after 20 mile loop in the wind. Steering is the next gremlin.
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
Thank you for the explanation. That hill took me by surprise today. Before I let anyone else drive it I want things to be working right. I was up till 2 adapting the sway bar links after 20 mile loop in the wind. Steering is the next gremlin.
Yes custom stuff makes it that much more fun to make everything work. Keep us posted and let us know if we can help more.
 
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XJCJTJ

XJCJTJ

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Supporting Member
Feb 13, 2019
26
California
918fd873cb23d4a4c91919cb0cd8fd40.jpg


According to the wires (ball joint center to mount center on track bar) it looks like an es2233L at the passenger knuckle will set the angle right. I’ll hang on to the high steer arm in case I lift it enough to use it. I just need to shorten a couple tubes.
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
Could you get the same angle by replacing your dropped pitman arm? If you can that might be the better way to go.
 
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XJCJTJ

XJCJTJ

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 13, 2019
26
California
I can't. There is only about 1-1.5" between the ball joint and the bottom of the radiator. Barely enough to notice. That is where I'll go if the T-link doesn't move it enough.

Could you get the same angle by replacing your dropped pitman arm? If you can that might be the better way to go.
 

Wildman

Over Analizer Extraordinaire...............
Supporting Member
Dec 12, 2015
293
In the hills of WA
Okay. I got it. As I said I had to go thru a ton of trial and error before I even came close to getting my steering working. And it still isn't perfect. Keep going at it and keep us updated. Would like to hear how it works out.

One thing would be to move your TRE to under the pitman arm which would give you more space. That is how mine is. You have to check your articulation because with it on top of the pitman arm you are going to have a very steep angle at full droop.
 
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XJCJTJ

XJCJTJ

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 13, 2019
26
California
Good point, I hadn't thought about going under. I'll see how this works and go from there. Until then I'm just taking it slow across any whoops in the road. #CalTransRythmSection

I'll post back on this, hopefully this weekend.


Okay. I got it. As I said I had to go thru a ton of trial and error before I even came close to getting my steering working. And it still isn't perfect. Keep going at it and keep us updated. Would like to hear how it works out.

One thing would be to move your TRE to under the pitman arm which would give you more space. That is how mine is. You have to check your articulation because with it on top of the pitman arm you are going to have a very steep angle at full droop.
Sorry, was pinned between jeep and garage wall. I'll see what I can get tomorrow.

Take your pics from further away and more square to the Jeep.
View attachment 82179
 
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