Still buying Chinese products?

mrblaine said:
The reason for so many substandard Chinese products is the folks who have them build stuff are picking price point, not quality. The most often noted comment by the folks in China for the US market is why we don't want them to build the good stuff. They can and do build to any quality level you are willing to pay for. We just don't want to pay for it.
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Hasn't been my experience. I tend to buy higher end products. For example my Krups used to be made in Europe and in a move it got broken. It was a very expensive one and I wanted to replace it, so I bought another one. Oh no, it is made in China. Well it lasted less than a year. Got another one. Less than a year. Finally purchased a German all stainless steel French Press. Hurray. Lots of examples of the garbage that comes out of that crap country that loves to make disposable crap. Just my extensive experience. I try to avoid it, but sometimes you have to have their crap because no other options.
 
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gg1 said:
Finally purchased a German all stainless steel French Press. Hurray. Lots of examples of the garbage that comes out of that crap country that loves to make disposable crap. Just my extensive experience. I try to avoid it, but sometimes you have to have their crap because no other options.
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Personally I think Bodum makes the best french press. Made in China obvously. If you use the steel one for some time you'll notice the mesh wears quickly on the walls compared to the glass. One thing for sure, the German one looks nice.

Edit: my brother just got a German one, his wife kept on dropping the bodum in the sink, got expensive, the glass ain't cheap
 
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mrblaine said:
The reason for so many substandard Chinese products is the folks who have them build stuff are picking price point, not quality. The most often noted comment by the folks in China for the US market is why we don't want them to build the good stuff. They can and do build to any quality level you are willing to pay for. We just don't want to pay for it.
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Having worked for a global manufacturer with facilities as well as suppliers in China, I will attest to this.

One of my first projects there was to make sure a 1.5hp 3-phase electric motor that our supplier had been producing in Mexico would continue to meet reliability targets when produced in China.

The first batch didn't, but not through any fault of the China plant - the Mexican factory had made a dimensional change to one of the bearing housings but did not update the drawing. When China made their first batch to the drawing, I finished a test with a bunch of lower bearings full of paint dust that had rubbed off due to rotor-stator contact.

These motors are expected to have a <2% fail rate after 20 years. They're perfectly capable of building quality product if that's what you ask them for.
 
gg1 said:
Hasn't been my experience. I tend to buy higher end products. For example my Krups used to be made in Europe and in a move it got broken. It was a very expensive one and I wanted to replace it, so I bought another one. Oh no, it is made in China. Well it lasted less than a year. Got another one. Less than a year. Finally purchased a German all stainless steel French Press. Hurray. Lots of examples of the garbage that comes out of that crap country that loves to make disposable crap. Just my extensive experience. I try to avoid it, but sometimes you have to have their crap because no other options.
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You're wholly missing the point. China does not love to make disposable crap. The companies that move their production to China are responsible for the quality and they don't move their production because they want higher quality, they move there because they want a lower price point or more profit. Unbeknownst to the vast majority of the folks in the offroad world, there are many high quality products we use that come right out of China. Top notch and not cheap, but not US made.

But again, they are not products that were built at a price point, they are built at a quality point first and then a price point. The reason they are made in China is to keep the price from going up instead of reducing quality to stay at a price point if made here or similar.
 
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billiebob said:
Most USA products for TJs are excellent, high end, quality fabricated items. But way too many guys want shittybilt parts for half price.

Currie, AEV, Savvy, .... lots of great choices. At some point marketing became more important than engineering and we all fell for it.

Of course lots of these high end parts are still built in Asia, but Currie, AEV and Savvy pay for higher quality.
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Talk to AEV with regard to bumpers and snorkels they had made in China. All of a sudden alibaba had agents selling them to everyone.

Whats annoying to me is that nobody sent a TJ AEV hood over there, Would kill to get a steel version.
 
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mrblaine said:
The reason for so many substandard Chinese products is the folks who have them build stuff are picking price point, not quality. The most often noted comment by the folks in China for the US market is why we don't want them to build the good stuff. They can and do build to any quality level you are willing to pay for. We just don't want to pay for it.
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I completely agree. I've mentioned something along those same lines in another thread. Sure, there's no denying that they put out some extremely garbage products. With some, it may be by choice (if someone is willing to buy garbage, I'd sell garbage too), but in other cases, I'd imagine they are just following the supplied blueprint. They certainly have the ability and knowledge to not produce garbage. Those products fly under the radar because of the simple fact that they were built well.

"Bad news spreads faster, and more often than good news."

As far as buying or not buying Chinese products, I feel like the US is in way too deep for any of us to have a choice in the matter. Making the choice to not buy Chinese should start from the top. I feel sure that all US citizens would like to buy American. But, when America chooses not to buy American labor to make American products, there comes a point where us "peons" have little to no choice.
 
bedhed said:
I feel sure that all US citizens would like to buy American.
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This is not true.

Edit: Japan now decided to pull out all their manufacturing facilities out of China "across-the-board".

Can we do that too? I guess not! Do we have the guts to do it? Nope! Why not? We are being "played" by the politicians!

Most of the investors prefer to make money that's why they are called "investors" they don't care to help you! What's in it for them to help you people?
 
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bedhed said:
I feel sure that all US citizens would like to buy American.
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If that were even remotely true, Harbor Freight, Walmart, Target, Amazon, eBay, et al would not be in business and thrive. By and large the mantra of US buyers is to find the best deal. Not the best value, not the best quality, not the longest lasting, but the lowest price. The lawn mower that your grandparents bought and passed down to the next generation is a thing of the past and won't return. Americans do not give a shit how long something lasts, they only give a shit about how little they can spend for something that will maybe work. Most don't know or care enough to understand that what works, really doesn't.

If you want to test that theory, look up any commonly used product on Amazon or eBay. Try something like a weed trimmer. Gas, corded, or battery. The options are astounding and none will be made in the US.

We have convinced ourselves somehow that to pay more for quality is a sin and shameful. Watch the Carfax commercials, price first, and at some point only.
 
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mrblaine said:
If that were even remotely true, Harbor Freight, Walmart, Target, Amazon, eBay, et al would not be in business and thrive. By and large the mantra of US buyers is to find the best deal. Not the best value, not the best quality, not the longest lasting, but the lowest price. The lawn mower that your grandparents bought and passed down to the next generation is a thing of the past and won't return. Americans do not give a shit how long something lasts, they only give a shit about how little they can spend for something that will maybe work. Most don't know or care enough to understand that what works, really doesn't.

If you want to test that theory, look up any commonly used product on Amazon or eBay. Try something like a weed trimmer. Gas, corded, or battery. The options are astounding and none will be made in the US.

We have convinced ourselves somehow that to pay more for quality is a sin and shameful. Watch the Carfax commercials, price first, and at some point only.
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You know mrblaine, I really don't like you much in your old threads and other posts, but I begin to notice your intellectual aptitude. Sorry to say this but a lot of our fellow Americans are hypocrite.
 
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TJ2 said:
This is not true.
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mrblaine said:
If that were even remotely true,
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I didn't say that it was a fact. An assumption, really. I'd hope that "they" would anyway.

mrblaine said:
If that were even remotely true,
Harbor Freight, Walmart, Target, Amazon, eBay, et al would not be in business and thrive. By and large the mantra of US buyers is to find the best deal. Not the best value, not the best quality, not the longest lasting, but the lowest price. The lawn mower that your grandparents bought and passed down to the next generation is a thing of the past and won't return. Americans do not give a shit how long something lasts, they only give a shit about how little they can spend for something that will maybe work. Most don't know or care enough to understand that what works, really doesn't.

If you want to test that theory, look up any commonly used product on Amazon or eBay. Try something like a weed trimmer. Gas, corded, or battery. The options are astounding and none will be made in the US.

We have convinced ourselves somehow that to pay more for quality is a sin and shameful. Watch the Carfax commercials, price first, and at some point only.
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Of course this is just one man's opinion, but I don't believe that it true neither. Not entirely anyway. Surely there are some out there that it applies to, I don't disagree with you there.

You said, "By and large the mantra of US buyers is to find the best deal. Not the best value, not the best quality, not the longest lasting, but the lowest price."

I don't disagree with you, but the way that I took it, was that American-made products are going to be the most expensive among them all. If so, why are they the most expensive? Just because it's made in America doesn't mean that it's quality is top of the line, and it's durability surpasses any others. You and I both know that wouldn't be a true statement. So, what is it that makes it more expensive than any others?

"Americans do not give a shit how long something lasts, they only give a shit about how little they can spend for something that will maybe work."

Assuming Americans are that way, how do they know how long the product will last? We don't know. Do we go with the highest price, and assume that means top quality and longevity? We would be idiots to do that.

I speak for myself with this, but I have spent far more than I had to on some things, and they ended up being garbage. Those things that come to mind were electronics. So, why are they priced so high? I can take a guess. It would have something to do with buying from our middle-man.

As for those that knowingly buy crap products, with an expectation of them being equal, well, those people are just idiots. No shortage of those, and never will be.


Anyway, I'm no expert on any of this, but I believe this topic goes far too deep to be kept so black and white like it has. It's just the reality that we're living in, and America as a whole is guilty of what you said, not just individuals. It's sad, really.
 
TJ2 said:
You know mrblaine, I really don't like you much in your old threads and other posts, but I begin to notice your intellectual aptitude. Sorry to say this but a lot of our fellow Americans are hypocrite.
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The vast majority of folks who dislike me only do so because of how I say something, not what I say.
 
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America opened the door to Asian products when we built shit cars in the 1970s. Not that we couldn't do better but every car built in the USA in the '70s was shit. Japan, Honda especially built exactly what we wanted. The EPA said we want this for emissions, the Big 3 said we cannot do it..... Honda said we are already selling it, the CCVC engine.

Then came electronics, where is RCA today. Where are your cell phones manufactured. We are better today but the big corporations still cry for tariffs instead of stepping up and beating the Asians at what they do best. And China sells us what we ask for, the cheapest shit possible and we flock to CostCo to get it..... in bulk.

Here is a great book.

pdf-crash-course-the-american-automobile-industry-s-road-to-bankruptcy-and-190222192917-thumb...jpeg
 
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jjvw said:
There is a good amount of surviver bias happening here. We manufactured plenty of low quality junk that didn't survive to now and has been forgotten about.
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Amen. That's what started this China/Japan thing back in the 70's when our auto workers wouldn't build a vehicle that would last more than 3 years without falling apart. There was a lot of truth in "never buy a car built on Monday"
Lack of pride led us down the road of buying offshore products IMO.
 
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Mr. Bills said:
The global economy began 74 years ago in the ashes of Germany and Japan.
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https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/american-isolationism
See specifically where it says "During the 1930s, the combination of the Great Depression and the memory of tragic losses in World War I contributed to pushing American public opinion and policy toward isolationism"
WW2 didn't start the global economy, it shut down isolationists from the 1930s that thought sticking their heads into the sand would cure the depression.
 
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