Synthetic ropes and the rope guards that come on them

Jerry Bransford

Jerry Bransford

Too many arguments and personal attacks, I'm done.
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I recently traded my backup synthetic rope to CodaMan for a set of LED headlights, nice trade! Anyway, I had forgotten to remove its sliding abrasion guard sleeve before shipping it and remembered this morning to suggest he remove it for several reasons.

While that sleeve that comes on virtually all pre-packaged sets of synthetic ropes for our winches, they're not a good idea. I learned that several years ago through various means including forum member @mrblaine so I removed it.

What reminded me to contact CodaMan was a posting @mrblaine (Blaine Johnson) made earlier this morning as part of something else he wrote...

"The other battle is education. There isn't a synthetic winch line sold for the most part that doesn't have a sliding sleeve of tubular nylon or polyester webbing on it. It is sold as an abrasion guard and that is the last thing it actually is. They do not work on sharp objects, the objects they do work on won't hurt the rope anyway and they hide damage, complicate smooth spooling in and out, and add unnecessary bulk which can actually blow up your winch on a side pull.

If customers understood what they were doing, the first things any of them would do is take the "abrasion guard" off, try to buy the line without it and use something better that actually works. Yet, the folks I'm in touch with report that it is almost impossible to sell a synthetic line without one. That is how ingrained ignorance is and gets and very similar to the tight fitting holes on shackle mounts, trying to get folks to understand just how flawed they are is a battle that makes Sisyphus look like a rank amateur."

Just a word to the wise. I would have never guessed the problems that sleeve can cause while not really working well at the job most assume it is there for.
 
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I use a old wool military blanket folded over thick on a rock or something if I haft to.but always try to avoid winch line touch anything if possible.yep threw away that abrasion guard its a sales gimmick
 
Jerry Bransford said:
I recently traded my backup synthetic rope to CodaMan for a set of LED headlights, nice trade! Anyway, I had forgotten to remove its sliding abrasion guard sleeve before shipping it and remembered this morning to suggest he remove it for several reasons.

While that sleeve that comes on virtually all pre-packaged sets of synthetic ropes for our winches, they're not a good idea. I learned that several years ago through various means including forum member @mrblaine so I removed it.

What reminded me to contact CodaMan was a posting @mrblaine (Blaine Johnson) made earlier this morning as part of something else he wrote...

"The other battle is education. There isn't a synthetic winch line sold for the most part that doesn't have a sliding sleeve of tubular nylon or polyester webbing on it. It is sold as an abrasion guard and that is the last thing it actually is. They do not work on sharp objects, the objects they do work on won't hurt the rope anyway and they hide damage, complicate smooth spooling in and out, and add unnecessary bulk which can actually blow up your winch on a side pull.

If customers understood what they were doing, the first things any of them would do is take the "abrasion guard" off, try to buy the line without it and use something better that actually works. Yet, the folks I'm in touch with report that it is almost impossible to sell a synthetic line without one. That is how ingrained ignorance is and gets and very similar to the tight fitting holes on shackle mounts, trying to get folks to understand just how flawed they are is a battle that makes Sisyphus look like a rank amateur."

Just a word to the wise. I would have never guessed the problems that sleeve can cause while not really working well at the job most assume it is there for.
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Love the reference to Sisyphus!
 
Jerry Bransford said:
and add unnecessary bulk which can actually blow up your winch on a side pull.
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Can someone who knows more than me expound on that comment? I don't fully grasp what a side pull is nor how unnecessary bulk could cause a problem. Are we talking about the angle of the rope in reference to the plane of rotation of the drum?
 
A couple weekends ago we helped a guy winch over an obstacle. As I was re-spooling, I came to the thin abrasion guard which immediately began to bunch up at the fairlead. It was fastened with Velcro, so I ripped it off and handed it to the owner and quickly explained that these don't protect the rope and they only get in the way. Re-spooling was easy after that.
 
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qslim said:
Can someone who knows more than me expound on that comment? I don't fully grasp what a side pull is nor how unnecessary bulk could cause a problem. Are we talking about the angle of the rope in reference to the plane of rotation of the drum?
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During a pull, the rope (or cable) will tend to bunch up on one side. If the rope piles up too much, it will eventually come into contact with the immovable parts of the winch such as the cross bars or the mount. At that point, the winch will mash through the rope or it will tear itself apart. Something has to give.

An abrasion guard that is rolled up onto the drum only adds unnecessary bulk where space can be precious.

Your spotter ought to be keeping an eye on the drum to see how the line is piling up. There may be a need to stop and re-spool the drum in order to make room for the rest of the pull. In the event that you are alone, you need to be aware that the rope is piling up and you need to stop and reset the drum.

While this particular scenario is unlikely, you cannot expect to winch a Jeep a 70-80 feet without having to reset the drum several times.

This is an argument that a little less rope might be a good thing.
 
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I keep the guard out until the very end of spooling in so I not sure how this is an issue, maybe others can reply on this
 
Plumber1 said:
I keep the guard out until the very end of spooling in so I not sure how this is an issue, maybe others can reply on this
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What happens if you only need the last five feet of your line on a pull?

Better answer: it doesn't matter where you put the guard on the line, because if the abrasion guard is present you won't be able to see some portion of the line underneath it, and if you can't see the line then you can't see what is or isn't happening to it. Also, lines tend to wear a LOT at the distal end, near the thimble...so if you keep a guard over that area, you're occluding the area that has the most chance for wear.
 
And there is the question of what is the guard doing there to begin with?
 
Factory-supplied confusion.

I'll admit that I didn't understand the problem with them for a long time, because I was used to lighter-duty chafing gear in the marine world and erroneously applied that understanding to winching a vehicle...and although the basic principles are not wrong, they still make for a dangerous transfer because they become wrong through lack of undertsanding. "Protect the line" is an easy maxim to misunderstand if you don't know how to effect it, and I didn't know at the time. Lots of people are still in that boat.
 
Are you afraid that the 1 valid argument that steel cable users have is actually true? :p
 
whitrzac said:
Are you afraid that the 1 valid argument that steel cable users have is actually true? :p
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I'm not afraid of anything, are you? How about a friendly little wager to compensate me for my time and the purchase of some equivalent cable? How much would you bet that after the same test that the steel cable is still viable according to commonly accepted standards?

I've got a 100 bucks that says it isn't. How about you? Do you really believe the wire rope will be damage free after that same test and not need replacement?
 
Wow I don't think this argument will ever be over. I used steel for many years on my Warn M8000 and never had any serious issues. Now I did cut my hand several times on steel fibers on the end of the cable. When it was time for a new winch I went with nothing else but another Warn product. This time its a Zeon 8S (synthetic) now I have used it several times again w/o and issues. Is synthetic better in every possible use that I could put my winch through of course not. Now is steel the best possible choice for everything I could put my winch through not even.
But I feel " just my thoughts" that rope has many more +'s than steel cable and I will not be replacing my rope with steel when the time comes. Now if your winch use is in the very few instances where cable makes sense then by all means stick with cable. I just don't on the front of a jeep is the place for cable.
 
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