Talk to me about welders

[lBasket]

I concur with these two wise fellers. As Victor mentioned, laziness is a problem. My welds are adequate, but usually a bit on the ugly side of the spectrum. They get uglier when I get lazy. Sometimes, I'm just lazy in re-positioning to continue to see the puddle well, but other times, I can't see the line between the parts I'm welding, and my bead strays off it, making it ugly and inadequate. Bringing in some work lights will solve that problem, but, man, is it difficult for me to get that through my thick noggin'! Patience and welding go hand-in-hand.

Age-related presbyopia has been difficult for me to deal with for the past 15 years, and the need to really see the puddle has had me spending lots of money on fancy prescription glasses with progressive lenses, as well as on high-quality welding helmets, which, especially for these old eyes, have been worth every penny. I've found the Lincoln helmets to be ideal for me. I have these two:

For most welding: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/Products/k3034-5

For welding in confined spaces, like under the LJ: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/Products/k4643-1

Don't discount the need for comfortable headgear in the helmet. A helmet that fits your head poorly will distract you from welding well. Both of those Lincoln options are very comfortable to wear for hours. The retail prices are scary, and street prices are substantially lower, but still on the high side. Just like welders, you get what you pay for. If you can afford the Lincoln stuff, it's worth it. If you can't, then you can't.

This is triple the price I paid for my welder

 

[mrblaine]

I know guys who can use a cheap HF helmet and can run good beads all day long,

I had a helper once upon a time who built his own rig and did all the welding on it. He asked for some pointers to improve his welding so I told him to bring his hood with him so we could see what we could do. I tried his hood for about 1.5 seconds, took it off, removed the welding lense and peeled off the protective plastic film from both sides, put it back in and had him try it. He was astounded that he could actually now see what he was trying to weld. Sadly, even being able to see the weld was not able to overcome many years of bad habits so I just kinda lost interest.

 

[mrblaine]

@bbaldwin237. This is a bit of a shot in the dark (no pun intended ), but I'm hoping someone has some experience with a product like this. When I'm under the Jeep I always have to get light on my subject. That's a double-edged sword because positioning a light is often very challenging (hanging it over the axle, pinning it between the frame and tub) and then you can't have it shining at your hemet light sensor too soon or your helmet auto darkens before you start welding. Ugh.

I saw this after following up on Victor's suggestion of some welding goggles. This one has an LED light to shine on the work space. Don't know if it's good though, so I'm not recommending. Would love feedback if anyone has a pair like this.

https://a.co/d/07lF1czg

If you get the Milwaukee articulating light and can't get light where you need it, there is more wrong than light will fix.

 

[gasiorv]

I had a helper once upon a time who built his own rig and did all the welding on it. He asked for some pointers to improve his welding so I told him to bring his hood with him so we could see what we could do. I tried his hood for about 1.5 seconds, took it off, removed the welding lense and peeled off the protective plastic film from both sides, put it back in and had him try it. He was astounded that he could actually now see what he was trying to weld. Sadly, even being able to see the weld was not able to overcome many years of bad habits so I just kinda lost interest.

Was it the film type plastic protective covering from the factory?

On the viking, the outer protective lense is like a hard plactic and it will get pitted and discolored over time and needs to be replaced the most. The inner protective lense just gets dusty and greasy from my nose/face and usually I just have to wipe it off until I scratch it and then replace it.

 

[Apparition]

I have a similar Viking hood, minus the built-in light, and just add a LED light to mine when I need it. Yes, the initial sticker shock is tough to overcome, but it is probably the thing that improved my welding the most. I know guys who can use a cheap HF helmet and can run good beads all day long, but I am not one of them, I struggled with the cheaper helmets and I tried several (HF, Yes, other Amazon brands) before I went with the Viking and that money I wasted on those helmets could have just gone to buying a good helmet from the get go. Another thing is to don't be cheap and avoid changing the outer and inner protective lense covers. I find myself doing that trying to save a few bucks and it is just not worth it, if the Lense is dirty you can't see and the weld isn't as good. Just change the protective lense you cheap ass! (talking to myself on that last sentence).

As far as the cheater lense goes. My helmet takes the cheater lense and I have a few but I found that it is more of a pain than a benefit. It is great if you were always welding on the bench or in a fixture where your head is always the correct distance from the weld. But usually I am usually in a position where my head is too far away from the weld and thus it just makes it blurry. I just use my cheater glasses when I am welding close and take the glasses off when my head is in a position where it is far. It is much easier to put on and take off the cheater glasses then it is to install and remove the cheater lense.

I also have the Viking 3350 without a light, which LED did you buy to add to yours. Lack of light is my biggest issue with welding. I've bought several Milwaukee lights to help out but I think something on the hood itself would be handy.

Also think I may try some cheater lenses and see if they help, cheap enough on Amazon. I don't have cheater glasses to use.

@bbaldwin237. This is a bit of a shot in the dark (no pun intended ), but I'm hoping someone has some experience with a product like this. When I'm under the Jeep I always have to get light on my subject. That's a double-edged sword because positioning a light is often very challenging (hanging it over the axle, pinning it between the frame and tub) and then you can't have it shining at your hemet light sensor too soon or your helmet auto darkens before you start welding. Ugh.

I saw this after following up on Victor's suggestion of some welding goggles. This one has an LED light to shine on the work space. Don't know if it's good though, so I'm not recommending. Would love feedback if anyone has a pair like this.

https://a.co/d/07lF1czg

That link didn't work for me.

 

[gasiorv]

I also have the Viking 3350 without a light, which LED did you buy to add to yours. Lack of light is my biggest issue with welding. I've bought several Milwaukee lights to help out but I think something on the hood itself would be handy.

I thought I had a picture of mine that I posted before, but I can't find it. Anyway, it is a light like this one. The LED strip goes right above the lense and I wrap the strap around the two head gear knobs, it sits perfect and it will allow you to use the LED strip or the flashlight on the side for more direct light.

 

[mrblaine]

Was it the film type plastic protective covering from the factory?

Yes, the protective film you have to peel off before you use the clear lens.

On the viking, the outer protective lense is like a hard plactic and it will get pitted and discolored over time and needs to be replaced the most. The inner protective lense just gets dusty and greasy from my nose/face and usually I just have to wipe it off until I scratch it and then replace it.

Another of my "helpers" would use my hood. He is one of those that welds with his face about 8" directly over the weld. He would smoke the outer lens in a few minutes of welding. No matter how many times I showed him to get his head over to the side to get out of the smoke to both save the lens and see better, he would not do it.

His second worse habit was laying the hood face down with the inner part up so all the grinding dust, dirt, and crap landed on the inside lens. No fuckwit, set it down so the outside is up and keep that shit out of my hood.

I finally had to put my foot down, take my hood away from him and make him use his own.

If it isn't obvious, I have a stack of new inner and outer protective lenses and change them often.

 

[sab]

I have a similar Viking hood, minus the built-in light

I put the wrong link up there. The "ADV" version of that helmet didn't exist when I bought mine. The ADV added that LED - mine doesn't have it. I edited the link to the correct helmet I have.

Another thing is to don't be cheap and avoid changing the outer and inner protective lense covers. I find myself doing that trying to save a few bucks and it is just not worth it, if the Lense is dirty you can't see and the weld isn't as good. Just change the protective lense you cheap ass! (talking to myself on that last sentence).

100%! I often hear that last sentence in my head! I've actually purchased a bunch of spares to keep on hand so that I don't respond to that voice with, "but I don't have any new lenses."

But usually I am usually in a position where my head is too far away from the weld and thus it just makes it blurry.

This is my biggest, "old guy vision" issue, not just with welding under the LJ. Whenever I'm in a confined space, I can't get my progressive lenses in the right position to focus, and if I wear my readers, the distance at which they focus is too limiting. When I weld, I wear the readers 90% of the time.

Heck ya! Those are nice (and $$$$$). I wish the goggle version had an LED. I'm usually under the LJ when I need the goggles and that means it's pretty dark.

EDIT: Can purchase and LED light to work with the LE Goggles here:

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/Products/kp4647-1

I have that LED, and I wouldn't recommend it. It's not nearly bright enough. Also, headlamps don't work very well for me with my eye problems if I'm wearing my progressive lenses. It's bad enough that I have to move my head around to get the "picture in focus." By the time I do that, the headlamp's pointing in the opposite direction.

If you get the Milwaukee articulating light and can't get light where you need it, there is more wrong than light will fix.

I find this to be far more useful than a headlamp.

set it down so the outside is up and keep that shit out of my hood.

This is one of my habits, as well. Also, my helmet is always in its storage bag in between welding projects due to all the nasty dust I generate.

One other habit I've developed is wearing an N95 mask whenever I grind or weld, so I'm not breathing that all the nastiness in, which is especially important due to pulmonary fibrosis running in my gene pool (it killed my dad and his brother).

 

[bbaldwin237]

I think I can possibly get a Titanium Mig 170 and Stick 225 with cart for around $500. I know they're HF, but that seems like a good deal to get started? Then add a good quality helmet, gas, and lots of practice?

I know the general consensus is go Lincoln or Miller (or Hobart) but it also seems like there's support for "entry level" models for folks that aren't making money with their welds.

Is a 170A that's rated for up to 3/16" enough? Or hold out for a 180A+?

 

[sab]

bbaldwin237, you're now in the "asking for validation of my decision" phase. Only you can answer the questions you posed.

Me, as a young engineer, already elbows deep in vehicle maintenance and light fab projects, I KNEW that I was going to spend a lifetime building things, which is why I bought a blue machine. It turned out to be a great decision because that blue machine is still in use many weekends in my shop, and it rarely gives me trouble (and when it does, it's usually my fault!) And then twenty-five years later, when I was an old engineer, I made the same decision, but went with red, when I decided to add a TIG machine to the shop. Both decisions were the right ones for me. I didn't waste money on tools that gave me trouble, preventing me from learning quickly.

My advice: if you KNOW that you are a lifetime fabricator, save up for blue or red machines. However, if you're in doubt, then maybe buying those HF units makes sense. If fabrication isn't for you, no need to spend significantly more to find out.

 

[gasiorv]

I don't know anything about either welder you listed and I agree with sab on if you are planning on using it for a long time to save up for a good machine.

Only input that I can give you is that basically any 220v MIG machine is going to do what you need it to do. I wouldn't sacrifice for a 110v machine.

If the 225 Stick you mention is an actual stick welder I would shy away from stick for a shop environment. I learned to weld with stick and I love stick when I am out on site because I don't have to worry about wind, or cleaning up the area so well (heck I will burn right through paint with a 6011), but in the shop a MIG with shielding gas is just so much easier, nicer, and cleaner. The 6011 and similar electrodes (the old farm electrodes that we all learned to weld with) can be pretty much stored anywhere and just grab and go and they will burn every time and the flux will give good shield, but once you start getting into structural type electrodes (7018 and similar) you got to start worrying about storage, humidity, etc... so you either got to buy them and use them right away and unfortunately throw away what you don't use or get an oven to store them. With MIG, the wire is pretty much good forever and a bottle of shielding gas will last a long while if you don't run high pressure. It is also very convenient to just grab the mig gun and go to town. Just my 2 cents, my Dad would be the opposite in his recommendation; his preference is the stick welder every time, so if he is at my house and he is helping out he will drag out my old stick welder covered in grinding dust in the corner, find a 1/8" 6011 rod, and tell me to get out of the way. I don't argue with the 80 yo, I just listen and get out of the way.

 

[bbaldwin237]

bbaldwin237, you're now in the "asking for validation of my decision" phase. Only you can answer the questions you posed.

Me, as a young engineer, already elbows deep in vehicle maintenance and light fab projects, I KNEW that I was going to spend a lifetime building things, which is why I bought a blue machine. It turned out to be a great decision because that blue machine is still in use many weekends in my shop, and it rarely gives me trouble (and when it does, it's usually my fault!) And then twenty-five years later, when I was an old engineer, I made the same decision, but went with red, when I decided to add a TIG machine to the shop. Both decisions were the right ones for me. I didn't waste money on tools that gave me trouble, preventing me from learning quickly.

My advice: if you KNOW that you are a lifetime fabricator, save up for blue or red machines. However, if you're in doubt, then maybe buying those HF units makes sense. If fabrication isn't for you, no need to spend significantly more to find out.

I promise I'm not asking for anyone to validate anything. But everything I read and watch online, points to Titanium, Vulcan and Yes being worthwhile options for hobbyists. While I have a big project on my horizon, I don't view myself as becoming a "fabricator." I'm not building a chassis, but will be adding brackets, building links, and attaching parts to a chassis. I will not be a daily, or even weekly, welder outside of that project.

I look at some of the guys like @macleanflood and @JMT (there's others but they come to mind) and the work that they have been able to put in with their machines. Of course it's hard to trust YouTube, but there's some channels that put serious work on all sorts of no-name, budget machines.

I just want real world input. Of course it's easy to sit back and say this is the best just buy it. We all know buy once, cry once. But obviously that's not the only option. For instance, in my area, every old Millermatic 250 is still over $2000 and that is just out of my budget.

 

[bbaldwin237]

I don't know anything about either welder you listed and I agree with sab on if you are planning on using it for a long time to save up for a good machine.

Only input that I can give you is that basically any 220v MIG machine is going to do what you need it to do. I wouldn't sacrifice for a 110v machine.

If the 225 Stick you mention is an actual stick welder I would shy away from stick for a shop environment. I learned to weld with stick and I love stick when I am out on site because I don't have to worry about wind, or cleaning up the area so well (heck I will burn right through paint with a 6011), but in the shop a MIG with shielding gas is just so much easier, nicer, and cleaner. The 6011 and similar electrodes (the old farm electrodes that we all learned to weld with) can be pretty much stored anywhere and just grab and go and they will burn every time and the flux will give good shield, but once you start getting into structural type electrodes (7018 and similar) you got to start worrying about storage, humidity, etc... so you either got to buy them and use them right away and unfortunately throw away what you don't use or get an oven to store them. With MIG, the wire is pretty much good forever and a bottle of shielding gas will last a long while if you don't run high pressure. It is also very convenient to just grab the mig gun and go to town. Just my 2 cents, my Dad would be the opposite in his recommendation; his preference is the stick welder every time, so if he is at my house and he is helping out he will drag out my old stick welder covered in grinding dust in the corner, find a 1/8" 6011 rod, and tell me to get out of the way. I don't argue with the 80 yo, I just listen and get out of the way.

Honestly, I have little interest in the stick, but they are offered as a package deal. I haven't yet asked if he would split them. The only reason I would be interested in the stick being included is that the friend that will be helping me practice is a retired industrial welder that has offered to teach me stick and that seems like something that would be fun to learn.

 

[gasiorv]

Got ya. I read it as MIG 170A OR Stick 225 and not AND. If the 170A is a 220v MIG machine that is capable of using shield gas, then it is probably a good deal and it will do what you need it, I am just not familiar. Another thing to consider (or not) is if you are buying a cheaper machine, maybe it is best to buy new so there is a warranty? Maybe not an issue but maybe something to consider.

 

[Apparition]

I promise I'm not asking for anyone to validate anything. But everything I read and watch online, points to Titanium, Vulcan and Yes being worthwhile options for hobbyists. While I have a big project on my horizon, I don't view myself as becoming a "fabricator." I'm not building a chassis, but will be adding brackets, building links, and attaching parts to a chassis. I will not be a daily, or even weekly, welder outside of that project.

I look at some of the guys like @macleanflood and @JMT (there's others but they come to mind) and the work that they have been able to put in with their machines. Of course it's hard to trust YouTube, but there's some channels that put serious work on all sorts of no-name, budget machines.

I just want real world input. Of course it's easy to sit back and say this is the best just buy it. We all know buy once, cry once. But obviously that's not the only option. For instance, in my area, every old Millermatic 250 is still over $2000 and that is just out of my budget.

I’ve been to Lincoln’s training center and taken design classes from Omer Blodgett himself. Sometimes paying a little extra for a machine is going further than you may realize.

But, you have to do what makes sense for you.

 

[bbaldwin237]

Got ya. I read it as MIG 170A OR Stick 225 and not AND. If the 170A is a 220v MIG machine that is capable of using shield gas, then it is probably a good deal and it will do what you need it, I am just not familiar. Another thing to consider (or not) is if you are buying a cheaper machine, maybe it is best to buy new so there is a warranty? Maybe not an issue but maybe something to consider.

Yes, it's a dual voltage 120/240.

I’ve been to Lincoln’s training center and taken design classes from Omer Blodgett himself. Sometimes paying a little extra for a machine is going further than you may realize.

But, you have to do what makes sense for you.

View attachment 675724

Like I said in the beginning, my budget is ultimately sub-$1000. So that puts me in the $700 range or so for a welder. If I go a little over budget to add gas, cart, and helmet it's doable, but staying within budget is the goal. I see occasional Lincoln 175s and 180s in that range but some are very old or very questionable ads.

 

[sab]

I’ve been to Lincoln’s training center and taken design classes from Omer Blodgett himself.

I just pulled the welding bible (Lincoln Electric’s “The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding”) out from the drawer of my TIG cart, and look who’s acknowledged:

 

[Apparition]

I just pulled the welding bible (Lincoln Electric’s “The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding”) out from the drawer of my TIG cart, and look who’s acknowledged:
View attachment 675731

He was a wealth of knowledge, unfortunately I was pretty fresh out of college or it could have been more useful as I didn’t know what I didn’t know at the time. I did get signed copies of his books though.

 

[tworley]

Fun fact - there is no 110/220V in the US. Only 120/240V

With $1000 as your budget, I'd look to an older Lincoln (like a 180) or a Hobart on Marketplace. I see them pop up often in my neck of the woods.

I have a Lincoln 211i and am happy with it.

I use a Viking hood, can't remember the specific model.

I also bought my gas online at Weldfabulous for $369. It was cheaper than any LWS and that included delivery to my front door. The initial tank price is what is expensive. Refilling a 92-125cu bottle should be about $100 +/-. Though its been a minute since I've checked prices...

 

[sab]

Fun fact - there is no 110/220V in the US. Only 120/240V

Counter Fun Fact - There's good reason why 110 and 220 are still referenced. The original power system in the U.S. was 110/220VAC. When I was a very young kid, we had 110, and then it went to 115, and finally 120. It's been hard to break from that habit of calling it 110, as that's what I heard growing up (I was too young to understand it, though). One day, I asked an electrician why we call it 110, but it's 120, and he told me the history of it. My understanding is that the switchover took place over decades, and when it occurred depended on where you lived...