This is why your dash speakers suck

89grand

TJ Addict
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Mar 29, 2019
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Phoenix, AZ
I know this is a Jeep forum, and many will either find this boring, or not important, but audio is one of my hobbies, and has been for a long time, and audio related questions do pop up fairly often. If interested, please keep reading.

Now on to why your dash speakers suck. It's not because of your particular speakers, assuming you are using something even half way decent (not that speaker quality doesn't matter, but it wouldn't matter what you used if left like image 1), it's because the factory mount allows the rear wave to cancel out the front wave of the speaker causing no bass. See image 1, the red arrows are a cheesy way of showing how the rear sound waves move around to the front of the speaker and interact with the front wave. Because they are 180 degrees out of phase from each other, you end up with very little to no lower/mid bass.

Some replace their speakers, but are fighting a winless battle if left as image 1. Some use the over priced sealed pods. Those address the issue with cancellation seen in image 1, but cause their own problem. The enclosure is way too small. That effects the speakers frequency response. What you end up with with is instead of complete cancellation, you get very little lower/mid bass and overly boosted upper bass in the 250hz region. That doesn't sound good either, and will not blend well at all with a subwoofer.

The most simple and effective way I found to deal with this, is to isolate the front and rear sound waves of the speakers as much as possible.

In image 2, I used some flashing material to cover most of the gaping hole. In image 3, I covered it and every hole I could with sound deadening material. Stuff that is butyll rubber with a foil backing. I even sealed up the gap between the speaker and the plate under the steering wheel as that matters too, and did the same on the other side. I then covered it all in black duct tape, just so the shiny silver wouldn't show through the grill, but that might not be needed. I did the drivers side first and left the passenger side as is, and the results was dramatic.

Home Depot even sells something that will work, in their roofing section. Speakers just need the front and back waves separated to a good degree, if you do so, you'll get way better bass response, but if you already own the small pods, make a hole in the rear around 1" if possible, or as big as you can, without cutting the whole back off.

Here are the rest of the pics.

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I'm not a huge audio nut, but on long road trips, it would be helpful to get some decent sound. The biggest problem I fight is getting the music loud enough to drown out the road/wind noise without it becoming shrill. I've added a low profile sub under the driver's seat, larger sound bar speakers and packed a bit of stuffing into the enclosures, and larger front speakers surrounded (sort of) by those foam backers that are available out there. This seems like a very inexpensive method to try. Thanks! Any other tips?
 
I'm not a huge audio nut, but on long road trips, it would be helpful to get some decent sound. The biggest problem I fight is getting the music loud enough to drown out the road/wind noise without it becoming shrill. I've added a low profile sub under the driver's seat, larger sound bar speakers and packed a bit of stuffing into the enclosures, and larger front speakers surrounded (sort of) by those foam backers that are available out there. This seems like a very inexpensive method to try. Thanks! Any other tips?


You might be able to fix that by playing with your EQ. Try lowering your treble or reducing output in your higher end (think 2k, 4k, etc) of your advance EQ settings.
 
A Wrangler is not exactly a great environment for great sound. Worrying about front/rear wave cancellation for the TJ's front speakers is like worrying about an ingrown toenail when you are having a heart attack. And it's really the front speaker's very small size in an oval configuration that causes the lack of bass, not the fact the rear is open to the front for wave cancellation. A small 4x6 oval speaker, even a 5.25" if you convert the front to that better size & shape, is not going to put out meaningful bass even with a properly ported sealed enclosure. I worked in the very high-end pro-level audio industry for a while providing audio systems for large venue environments like auditoriums & stadiums. I have constructed/built large tube and solid state amplifiers & acoustic suspension speakers so it's a subject I'm familiar with. I'm just happy if I can hear my stereo in my open Jeep on the highway. I wouldn't mind a bigger amplifier like I installed into my previous TJ but I'm sure not going to bother trying to enclose the front speakers for a barely perceptible improvement. Worry about it in my house? Sure. :)
 
Jerry, I usually agree with you on mechanical subjects, but not here. Even more surprising is that you should be familiar with the subject. The size of the speaker in the dash is not really the issue. I mean, sure a 5.25" is better, and that's what I use over the weaker 4x6, but the mounting surface is 100% the problem. It's the worst design I've ever seen in an automobile. It really isn't much better than simply sticking a speaker to something metal by the magnet completely in free space.

Every open back speaker known to man that is meant to produce bass, is either in an enclosure of proper size, or an infinite baffle arrangement where the front and rear sound waves of the speakers are isolated from each other, which is basically what this mod does. Many people think the problem is simply the speaker locations, and while it certainly isn't ideal, the completely open structure of it, is a huge problem. The sealed pods they sell, solve the open mounting problem, but then create a new one with crappy, choked, unnatural frequency response

Now, I'm not just speculating that this would sound better, even though the nature of how a speaker works guarantees it will, I've actually done it. And I did the drivers side first, turned off the sub and rear speakers and simply using the balance control went from left to right. The sealed off side sounded much more full and natural, while the unmodified passenger side was tinny and shrill. I even have a video of it somewhere. The only change being sealing off the huge open gaps on the drivers side. I use a 80hz crossover point just to mention that.

One final note, this doesn't require major surgery, it doesn't takes hours and hours to do. It's quite easy, doesn't take very long, it's not a permanent alteration, and the results are dramatic, assuming you have a half way decent speaker to begin with.
 
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I uploaded the video I took a few years ago. It's not hi-res or anything but it clearly shows a difference. You'll need something other than a phone to tell the difference, but any even mildly ok computer speaker should make the difference clear.

The first half of the video is the stock passenger side, the second half, the sealed up drivers side. All other speakers are turned off, just one 5.25" dash speaker at a time with the high pass crossover set at 80hz @ 24db. You guys can play this, and decide if it does nothing, or is worth the very small effort. I just picked something and played it at the time, but it's good enough to tell.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm trying to give you guys an easy fix that flat out works.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I love a good read but the issue is more than what you are describing and I tend to agree with @Jerry Bransford on this one, especially the in grown toe nail analogy, brilliant Jerry.

The best value play to correct this is what @cliffish did, installed a pair of $20 inline tweeters.
So did you play the video above and decide for yourself, or just read two opposing opinions, and pick one to go with, mainly the opinion of who's more popular?

Installing tweeters does nothing to improve the shitty factory mount. That's a separate issue.
 
So did you play the video above and decide for yourself, or just read two opposing opinions, and pick one to go with, mainly the opinion of who's more popular?

Installing tweeters does nothing to improve the shitty factory mount. That's a separate issue.

I've been playing with audio for a bunch of years and been tinkering with the Jeeps audio for a while now.

It is a crappy factory mount, 100% accurate, and the fact the mounts point down make it terrible.. .so I had custom tweeter pods made that are attached to my a-pillar trim.

Currently have a 7 channel fully active sound system driven by a Match M 5DSP and Arc Audio Mini 125.2. Put my Helix P235 tweeters in the pods.



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I had to replace a blown stock speaker in my Rubicon. Originally I had stock component speakers which were mounted in enclosed plastic boxes. I now have an 'upgraded' speaker mounted on a flat speaker adapter, and it sounds worse. I'm going to get a set of molded speaker boxes as I believe it will make a difference - I think it will sound louder and fuller for the same amount of power. I'll post back regarding my findings.

I agree that chasing perfect sound is fruitless in a Wrangler, but optimizing an installation to get the most out of what you have sounds quite reasonable to me.
 
I've been playing with audio for a bunch of years and been tinkering with the Jeeps audio for a while now.

It is a crappy factory mount, 100% accurate, and the fact the mounts point down make it terrible.. .so I had custom tweeter pods made that are attached to my a-pillar trim.

Currently have a 7 channel fully active sound system driven by a Match M 5DSP and Arc Audio Mini 125.2. Put my Helix P235 tweeters in the pods.



View attachment 88754
I have a plan to address the low, and bad angled dash speaker mounts, and most will find it unorthodox, but it should address the position of the dash speaker mounts. My original post was to address the shitty mount itself, and it's lack of any bass.

I plan to run a 5.25" actual woofer with a high QTS (not subwoofer) in the stock "sealed" locations, and Tang Band mini speaker modules either along the A pillar, or on the dash firing upward. My Jeep isn't my DD, but I just enjoy making the audio system sound better for when I do drive it.
 
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or just read two opposing opinions, and pick one to go with, mainly the opinion of who's more popular?

If you re-read my post I didn't disagree with you, I was trying to get across that what you said was overkill for the situation, and easily solved for through an inexpensive tweeter relocation.
 
If you re-read my post I didn't disagree with you, I was trying to get across that what you said was overkill for the situation, and easily solved for through an inexpensive tweeter relocation.
Yeah, but my response was because my post addresses the lack of bass in the factory open mount, not the high frequency response, or lack there of. They really are two separate things, and require two separate approaches.

Sealing off the mounting surface "mostly" fixes the lack of bass, which is what the post was about. Fixing the high frequency response requires a totally different plan of attack.

It's just a discussion, but I feel what I'm saying is being misunderstood.
 
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I don't believe you're being misunderstood 89grand, it's just that your otherwise well written writeup was simply not being completely agreed with. It has nothing to do with a popularity contest.
 
I don't believe you're being misunderstood 89grand, it's just that your otherwise well written writeup was simply not being completely agreed with. It has nothing to do with a popularity contest.
Lord I know that feeling . There is a “who’s excited about the gladiator “ thread started ...I thought , hmmm, if it’s question , I guess it’s ok to answer either way. So I said I wasn’t really . Oh boy.

Anyway , back on topic, I was doubtful these things even had front speakers for a while.

At 18 , I’d do a stereo mod even if a vehicle didnt have wheels...at 52 , I want to hear any unusual mechanical noises , at least I do until I hear them. Then I don’t.
 
I don't believe you're being misunderstood 89grand, it's just that your otherwise well written writeup was simply not being completely agreed with. It has nothing to do with a popularity contest.
Well, you disagreed with me, and you had every right to initially, of course you still can, but I not only posted this thread with first hand experience, I've followed it up with video proof.

You said it would pretty much do nothing, and be a waste of time, but my own experience and video suggest the exact opposite.

I'm not trying to force what I did on anybody. I believe it is very effective, and pretty easy to do. Now with the video proof. Anyone that considers it can do so if they hear the clear difference, or not do it if they don't, or they can not even listen to the video and just assume it's a dumb idea.