What are your thoughts on the 2021 Rubicon 392?

[Fouledplugs]

Are they not offering the V8 in a 2 door? with half doors???

As of now, the V8 is not an option on any other Wrangler trim level.

Similar to the Hellcat when it was first released. The only way you could get the Hellcat engine was by buying the Hellcat. It’s not an engine package that is optioned on any trim except the 392 Wrangler.

Another example is the Rubicon transfer case or the Dana 44 front axle, its only an option that is packaged with the Rubicon trim. Cant have those options on a sport or Sahara.

 

[cliffish]

As of now, the V8 is not an option on any other Wrangler trim level.

Similar to the Hellcat when it was first released. The only way you could get the Hellcat engine was by buying the Hellcat. It’s not an engine package that is optioned on any trim except the 392 Wrangler.

Another example is the Rubicon transfer case or the Dana 44 front axle, its only an option that is packaged with the Rubicon trim. Cant have those options on a sport or Sahara.

Well I will wait 5 years or so and get a gently used one....maybe

 

[Fouledplugs]

Well I will wait 5 years or so and get a gently used one....maybe

I dont think so. A new Jeep wrangler is at the top when it comes to retaining value.

 

[cliffish]

I dont think so. A new Jeep wrangler is at the top when it comes to retaining value.

oh did not say it would be cheap, but still better than new!...Although a hemi TJ will be cheaper

 

[Zorba]

Oh I am not arguing it’s fair, I am just shedding light on the fact that people no longer seem to have sticker shock

You've noticed that too? I put it down to the "smartphone phenomenon". People have become accustomed to paying huge amounts of money for everything (worth it or not), plus a monthly charge on top of it. Of course, I tend to blame smartphones for most of the world's ills these days - just in case somebody hadn't noticed!

 

[Chris]

You've noticed that too? I put it down to the "smartphone phenomenon". People have become accustomed to paying huge amounts of money for everything (worth it or not), plus a monthly charge on top of it. Of course, I tend to blame smartphones for most of the world's ills these days - just in case somebody hadn't noticed!

Yes

Somehow people have rationalized that a reasonably loaded new vehicle costs somewhere in the ballpark of $50,000. I look at that and I'm absolutely blown away. There is no way in hell I am going to go out and pay 50k for a new vehicle unless I am living in it, commuting 5+ hours a day, or just inherited a large sum of money.

I'd just as soon buy a vehicle that is 7 years old with lower miles for less than half the price.

But like I said, somehow people have rationalized this. I mean case in point: We currently have a 2012 Honda Odyssey "Touring Elite" model which is the top of the line model. I paid 15k for it with lower miles, but do you know what a brand new 2021 model costs in the same trim? Just over 50k. Who the fuck is going to spend 50k plus on a minivan? Yet I see them driving around everywhere, so people are paying it.

So one of two things is going on here:

1) The average family is making a lot more money than I thought.
2) People are taking on serious debt to pay for these vehicles and are somehow justifying a $500 plus per month car payment.

I keep thinking the next "bubble" that bursts will be related to the auto loan industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way.

 

[Zorba]

Yes

Somehow people have rationalized that a reasonably loaded new vehicle costs somewhere in the ballpark of $50,000. I look at that and I'm absolutely blown away. There is no way in hell I am going to go out and pay 50k for a new vehicle unless I am living in it, commuting 5+ hours a day, or just inherited a large sum of money.

I'd just as soon buy a vehicle that is 7 years old with lower miles for less than half the price.

But like I said, somehow people have rationalized this. I mean case in point: We currently have a 2012 Honda Odyssey "Touring Elite" model which is the top of the line model. I paid 15k for it with lower miles, but do you know what a brand new 2021 model costs in the same trim? Just over 50k. Who the fuck is going to spend 50k plus on a minivan? Yet I see them driving around everywhere, so people are paying it.

So one of two things is going on here:

1) The average family is making a lot more money than I thought.
2) People are taking on serious debt to pay for these vehicles and are somehow justifying a $500 plus per month car payment.

I keep thinking the next "bubble" that bursts will be related to the auto loan industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way.

Yep. This begs the question as to "Why?". I can shout and bitch about un-necessary "technology", effete luxury features, and nanny state requirements til the cows come home; but I'm not convinced that is responsible for ALL of the price increase. A lot of it? Sure. I think people have become inured to paying high prices for everything - and yea, I blame smartphones for part of it - but I think the CarCos have taken advantage of this phenomenon, regardless of its genesis, much like the TelCos have in the cell phone business, and CableCos have in the cable business (read: Package mentality).

Yea, I think debt just doesn't matter anymore to many/most people. As long as they can have their luxuries and gadgets, who cares what it costs? I'm just too damn cheap. I'll spend hours researching prices on something I want, and when I buy it, its the cheapest I can find - and like with my Warn winch, I'd rather spend money on a used good quality "whatever", and fix it up, rather than buying a new, dubious quality but loaded with features "whatever" and have it break later (read: avoid Chinese junk). Hell, I just bought a used camera lens, that new would cost about $250 - which really isn't much for quality glass. I paid $36/shipped for a lightly used one simply because I was damned if I was gonna pay full buck for it. Used ones like it are generally around $80-$100, so when I saw this one, I jumped on it! Of course, the USPS gave me a $250 case of heartburn waiting 5 weeks to receive it as they didn't know what they did with it, but it eventually arrived! I bought a Rugged Ridge winch plate from Amazon Warehouse for $65, instead of the $100+ one normally would pay for it - because I wasn't going to pay that for a hunk of welded steel. But most people just don't care...

 

[Irun]

Yea, I think debt just doesn't matter anymore to many/most people. As long as they can have their luxuries and gadgets, who cares what it costs?

There's a lot of truth to this. When and where I was brought up, debt was a bad thing. You didn't really own it, unless it was completely paid for. Youth certainly contributes to wanting luxuries without caring about cost. However, I think society is a much bigger contributor. If you're debt free you're not beholding to anyone. Society, in general, doesn't want that. Those that aren't debt free should try it. Liberating is an insufficient word to describe it!

 

[TWiG01]

I just hope the 392 is successful enough for them to put a 5.7 Hemi in the JLU. If Jeep offers a 5.7, I'll buy one.

This is the route they should go. And make the 5.7 available in the 2 doors as well.

 

[cliffish]

So one of two things is going on here:

1) The average family is making a lot more money than I thought.
2) People are taking on serious debt to pay for these vehicles and are somehow justifying a $500 plus per month car payment.

How are you coming to a $500 on a $50K car..hell at 60 months including taxes that would be $971 (with %6.85 tax rate) Even an 8 year loan it would be $712. You would have to put down $25,000 to get that van to $524/mo.

We just got my parents a 2019 Outback with 11,000 miles and that was still $26K....people are making payments over a grand a month to drive the $50K car...but again most are leasing so maybe that is their $600 payment???

 

[Chris]

How are you coming to a $500 on a $50K car..hell at 60 months including taxes that would be $971 (with %6.85 tax rate) Even an 8 year loan it would be $712. You would have to put down $25,000 to get that van to $524/mo.

We just got my parents a 2019 Outback with 11,000 miles and that was still $26K....people are making payments over a grand a month to drive the $50K car...but again most are leasing so maybe that is their $600 payment???

I was assuming a large down payment, but yes, you're very right.

Leases may be a big part of it, I think you're right. Still, there are probably a lot of people out there paying $1000 a month on a new vehicle and have somehow justified that. Either that or like I said, a lot of people are making a lot of money.

 

[Zorba]

Leases make the least sense of all - unless you just like paying money.

 

[Zorba]

There's a lot of truth to this. When and where I was brought up, debt was a bad thing. You didn't really own it, unless it was completely paid for. Youth certainly contributes to wanting luxuries without caring about cost. However, I think society is a much bigger contributor. If you're debt free you're not beholding to anyone. Society, in general, doesn't want that. Those that aren't debt free should try it. Liberating is an insufficient word to describe it!

Yep. I too was raised that way, and raised to not buy more than I needed, and to skip luxuries in general as well as gadgets in particular. It was a BFD when my father bought a car with A/C - it wasn't really needed in the part of California we lived in, but he commuted "over the hill" to a hot area. Even then, he wouldn't run it unless it was really and truly hot.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

There's a lot of truth to this. When and where I was brought up, debt was a bad thing. You didn't really own it, unless it was completely paid for. Youth certainly contributes to wanting luxuries without caring about cost. However, I think society is a much bigger contributor. If you're debt free you're not beholding to anyone. Society, in general, doesn't want that. Those that aren't debt free should try it. Liberating is an insufficient word to describe it!

The borrower is slave to the lender.

Mortgage notwithstanding, I can't STAND having debt of any kind. I got in over my head in my early 20s, ended up peaking around $30k in debt (sadly not much by today's standards but closer than I care to mention to my annual income at the time), about half in CC and the other in vehicles I was upside down on. The stress I felt having most of my income spoken for with no way out of it was immense. I ended up doing the debt snowball (pay off the smallest one, put that payment toward the next smallest one and continue until it's all gone) to get out of it, took me a few years and I'll never do it again. I've not so much as carried a credit card balance since then.

 

[Irun]

The borrower is slave to the lender.

Mortgage notwithstanding, I can't STAND having debt of any kind. I got in over my head in my early 20s, ended up peaking around $30k in debt (sadly not much by today's standards but closer than I care to mention to my annual income at the time), about half in CC and the other in vehicles I was upside down on. The stress I felt having most of my income spoken for with no way out of it was immense. I ended up doing the debt snowball (pay off the smallest one, put that payment toward the next smallest one and continue until it's all gone) to get out of it, took me a few years and I'll never do it again. I've not so much as carried a credit card balance since then.

The one good thing I can say about this Covid year is it was the year I became 100% debt free!

 

[Fouledplugs]

Yes

Somehow people have rationalized that a reasonably loaded new vehicle costs somewhere in the ballpark of $50,000. I look at that and I'm absolutely blown away. There is no way in hell I am going to go out and pay 50k for a new vehicle unless I am living in it, commuting 5+ hours a day, or just inherited a large sum of money.

I'd just as soon buy a vehicle that is 7 years old with lower miles for less than half the price.

But like I said, somehow people have rationalized this. I mean case in point: We currently have a 2012 Honda Odyssey "Touring Elite" model which is the top of the line model. I paid 15k for it with lower miles, but do you know what a brand new 2021 model costs in the same trim? Just over 50k. Who the fuck is going to spend 50k plus on a minivan? Yet I see them driving around everywhere, so people are paying it.

So one of two things is going on here:

1) The average family is making a lot more money than I thought.
2) People are taking on serious debt to pay for these vehicles and are somehow justifying a $500 plus per month car payment.

I keep thinking the next "bubble" that bursts will be related to the auto loan industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way.

As soon as people understand what classifies an item/product/service as a luxury, then people will spend more reasonable amounts on cars. A brand new (buying new is, to me, a luxury) Chevy Spark ($13k) should be enough to drive back and fourth to work everyday. But people want, want, want and have a certain image (ego) of success to present to others, with that comes a price tag attached to it this is more substantial.

 

[Fouledplugs]

This is the route they should go. And make the 5.7 available in the 2 doors as well.

They would sell them like hot cakes.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Either that or like I said, a lot of people are making a lot of money.

Wealthy folks get cars they can “afford.” People who have less money want that look or think, “if someone else has one, I deserve one.” And will assume a mountain of debt to get it.

To be fair, I dont see a lot of young people with the $50k Jeep’s. More so, older folks no longer in their 20’s. But that’s my own perspective.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Wealthy folks get cars they can “afford.” People who have less money want that look or think, “if someone else has one, I deserve one.” And will assume a mountain of debt to get it.

To be fair, I dont see a lot of young people with the $50k Jeep’s. More so, older folks no longer in their 20’s. But that’s my own perspective.

hang out in Colorado Springs, especially the south side of town. I swear every 19-24 year old enlisted that gets stationed at Fort Carson sees all the Jeeps and think they need one.

 

[jeepguy03]

Yes

Somehow people have rationalized that a reasonably loaded new vehicle costs somewhere in the ballpark of $50,000. I look at that and I'm absolutely blown away. There is no way in hell I am going to go out and pay 50k for a new vehicle unless I am living in it, commuting 5+ hours a day, or just inherited a large sum of money.

I'd just as soon buy a vehicle that is 7 years old with lower miles for less than half the price.

But like I said, somehow people have rationalized this. I mean case in point: We currently have a 2012 Honda Odyssey "Touring Elite" model which is the top of the line model. I paid 15k for it with lower miles, but do you know what a brand new 2021 model costs in the same trim? Just over 50k. Who the fuck is going to spend 50k plus on a minivan? Yet I see them driving around everywhere, so people are paying it.

So one of two things is going on here:

1) The average family is making a lot more money than I thought.
2) People are taking on serious debt to pay for these vehicles and are somehow justifying a $500 plus per month car payment.

I keep thinking the next "bubble" that bursts will be related to the auto loan industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way.

There are a lot of people who lease, then buy the vehicle at the end of the lease, or just lease something else.

Nobody thinks about the $50k price tag anymore, just how much it costs per month for them to live their lifestyle. This is why so many people were fucked during the pandemic when they had to go on lockdown. Most people I know have no savings, zero. The higher the salary, it seems the worse they are with money. A friend of mine was a nanny for a family whose combined income was $350K+ a year. They had a nice house, but drove ratted out cars and seemed to never have any money and could never pay her on time. It would take them weeks sometimes a month to catch up on what they owed her. Where the money went? Who knows.

Even my sister who works in biotech and makes twice my salary never seems to have any money. She does go on a decent number of vacations, but still it's gone before it even makes it to the bank account.