What do I need to know about ball joints?

[Steven_Olson]

Mr Blaine or Mr bransford, what are your recommendations for ball joints for longevity? Having read Blaine's post above I'm really curious what you 2 recommend.

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[Jerry Bransford]

Mr Blaine or Mr bransford, what are your recommendations for ball joints for longevity? Having read Blaine's post above I'm really curious what you 2 recommend.

I dunno what Blaine recommends but I like and run the Spicer ball joints I recommended in post #12 above. The threaded brass inserts included in that kit are not used in our TJs.

 

[Steven_Olson]

Thanks Jerry, Spicer's what I've got in now.

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[mrblaine]

I actually have a fair idea of his background and what he does for a living. My first response was respectful and I really did want his input on a viable alternative to an upgraded ball joints if the dynatracs have design issues. (a problem I personally have yet to experience but that's just one case of good luck) his reply was quite sarcastic. The first thing he did was attack my tire size choice. I'm not the one in this thread who needs ball joints. I was simply trying to learn from his experience.

Can't attack something I don't know about. I know absolutely nothing of your build or your rig, not one iota.

The second thing he did was play dumb about knowing there's different grades of auto parts. I'm sorry but ether we all give him too much credit or again he's being sarcastic for no reason. I don't have time for ether option frankly.

We were discussing the shit quality of Moog Ball Joints. I don't know of a top of the line or bottom of the line Moog number, perhaps you can enlighten me?

The third thing he did was to say that I went about fixing my tow rig wrong. That's fine its his opinion but I don't have the money to retube an axle when a couple of ball joints will fix it to perfect factory specs. I also can't find a junk yard axle around here for that truck or I'd go get that but so far it's not an option for me.

And again, we are not in the Dodge Tow Rig section, when we get there, my answer may change but if you think putting adjustables in a 30 or 44 because it is bent is a smart idea, then I have little left to say on the subject.

I defer to the guys knowledge but when I ask a legitimate question and get sarcasm and basically no answer how would you respond? Perhaps he should know something about my background, setup, and knowledge base before giving me attitude?

And after all that I still don't have any more information than I started with. He thinks Spicer is better than moog, that's great, he hasn't yet said if they pay labor on warranty work. And it's been my experience that in this climate moog and factory last about the same amount of time.

As to tire size: where you live and wheel has a big effect on what tires your axle will support. I was recently in Hawaii and the guys I was wheeling with there told me that no one runs over a 4.88 even in a jk axle as they tend to have high failure rates even on 35s. Here its normal to run 5.38s with no gear issues at all. So while 37s on a 44 may not be an option in your area its common here on jk axles and on a tj 44 while it's pushing the limits its quite functional depending on how you drive. The only axle issue I have with my current setup is a leaking arb and regular inner seal failure. So I'd say in my case 37s are fine.

Again though, what did my tire size have to do with the question of what would he recommend instead of the dynatrac joints? I was more than willing to take in what info he was willing to offer. What I'm not willing to do is roll over when he gets his panties in a bunch and feels the need to try and beat on someone. I had more than enough bullies try that in high school, I didn't accept it then and nothing has changed now.


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Nothing to do with you at all. I neither know or care of your background because it doesn't apply to what I do and the rigs I babysit. One of those is a TJ on 37's with a fully built JK Rubi 44 front that has had a couple grand in ball joints in it. Learn from that or don't, I still have to deal with it and we won't ever do another one.

 

[mrblaine]

That u suspect greatly depends on where you live. Other than frequent unit bearing failures (and it may be something in my setup doing it as I know others who have 37s and don't have that issue, it also happened on 35s) I gave no issues. The inner c is much larger, the outter knuckles arn't a regular failure point. The ball joints are a bit under sized to be sure, that's why I asked if you knew something better than stock that was also better than a pro steer joint.

Mr Blaine or Mr bransford, what are your recommendations for ball joints for longevity? Having read Blaine's post above I'm really curious what you 2 recommend.

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We've had the absolute best luck with Spicer. I run them in my trail rig which has Ford F-450 knuckles and inner C's. I ran the same set in Johnson Valley on 40ish inch sticky tires for 100's of trail runs out there without wearing them out. The only reason I have a new set is I built a new front axle and I put the same Spicer units in it and didn't feel like pulling them out of the old axle. I put Spicer in any client rig unless they want to experiment with something I'm unfamiliar with.

 

[fourpointzero]

Unfortunately for me, my Spicer lowers needed replacement this December 2017 with less than 30k miles. I installed them new, uppers and lowers, in May of 2015, purchased from East Coast Gear Supply. And they were the 706944x Spicer’s. Since it was a Saturday and I had to finish the job that day, my only ‘best’ replacement option for the bottoms where the ‘new improved’ Moog’s. We’ll see how well they do. FYI, I had 30” AT’s on it when the Spicers went in and shortly after, went to 33” Duratracs. Only 1 of the ball joints needed replacement but since the knuckles were off, it made sense to replace both bottoms at once. Let me be clear that I’m not dogging Spicer. If I had to do it again, I’d go w them in a heart beat.


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[mrblaine]

Unfortunately for me, my Spicer lowers needed replacement this December 2017 with less than 30k miles. I installed them new, uppers and lowers, in May of 2015, purchased from East Coast Gear Supply. And they were the 706944x Spicer’s. Since it was a Saturday and I had to finish the job that day, my only ‘best’ replacement option for the bottoms where the ‘new improved’ Moog’s. We’ll see how well they do. FYI, I had 30” AT’s on it when the Spicers went in and shortly after, went to 33” Duratracs. Only 1 of the ball joints needed replacement but since the knuckles were off, it made sense to replace both bottoms at once. Let me be clear that I’m not dogging Spicer. If I had to do it again, I’d go w them in a heart beat.


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What did you use to determine they needed replacement? Hopefully it wasn't up and down play because every ball joint I've messed with has some amount of that in the lower.

 

[fourpointzero]

@mrblaine - It was very loose. Limp is the best way to describe the joint. The passenger side was nothing like the driver side, which was taut and felt solid in the joint. Im far from a pro and maybe I prematurely replaced them, but I had a friend helping me out who’s got more experience than I do and so we went ahead thinking proactively and replaced the lowers.


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[fourpointzero]

What did you use to determine they needed replacement?

Just a heads up that I replied to your question above this post. [emoji106] If I misdiagnosed my bjoints, then any knowledge you can share is appreciated. Cheers!


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[mrblaine]

@mrblaine - It was very loose. Limp is the best way to describe the joint. The passenger side was nothing like the driver side, which was taut and felt solid in the joint. Im far from a pro and maybe I prematurely replaced them, but I had a friend helping me out who’s got more experience than I do and so we went ahead thinking proactively and replaced the lowers.


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Lowers tend to develop vertical play as the ball seats into the socket a bit from initial wear. That's the bad news, the good news is the weight of the rig holds them in the socket so there is typically no symptom or problem caused by the vertical play. All TJ lower ball joints pivot around in a circle on the ball so even being loose in that regard is not a good indicator of failure or potential failure. I see almost no lowers that don't have some degree of vertical play and since we watch for it when we jack up the front axle, I see it all the time. The only time I replace the lower is when I replace the uppers for lateral play unless the lower looks like it is about to let the pin fall out which has only been once.

 

[fourpointzero]

Thank you, @mrblaine. Hopefully the replacements hold up as well as my OE Spicer. Guess I could have kept the second set on for another 50/60k or more. Not sure what the data shows for the ‘improved’ Moog design. Time will tell. Cheers!


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