When to upgrade control arms?

[The4bangertj]

So currently I am on a 4in lift, 2in deep ucf skid, sye and savvy rear uppers. Front currie track bar and currie steering but rear track bar is stock with a non angled raised bracket on the axle side and all other control arms are (both lower and front upper are stock) I do hope to mid arm but bc I’m still in college it would take me a very long time to save enough to buy or even build a mid arm, as well as I have no welder or place to install the mid arm as I’m currently doing an axle swap In a parking lot.
I still would like to get a sway loc and other things but I’m on the fence if I should try and budget in the rest of the control arms and a rear trac bar( 1,800 ish but bolts in) or spend the money on other things I won’t swap out such as a sway loc and wait till I’m out of college to mid arm and no have to worry about re doing things?
I get most of my travel but with 10.75 travel front and 9.5 rear my down travel for both front and rear are limited with about 1.5in left of shock shaft. It’s all from the rubber bushings bindings. I’d like to outboard too and from bfh video on the red lj with short arms ( I know both of them are on the forum but I can’t remember who’s lj that was) he didn’t have problems getting 12in travel out of good miss alignment joints. Should I wait for mid arm and outboard at the same time ( and getting currie coils bc currently I have metalcloak 3.5in coils) to set it all up properly?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I upgrade my control arms when they do this:

 

[The4bangertj]

I upgrade my control arms when they do this:

View attachment 425049

hope they don’t cost 1k for 2 lowers too. Good point though, they have rock rash but not bent.

 

[PNW_LJ]

I say, wait till a deal on a used set of savvy/currie arms pops up. You might have to rebuild some joints, but you can save some money there for other mods.

I’m not very familiar, what is the UCF 2in tuck? I believe that a full tummy tuck should come wayy before a midarm/outboard.

 

[The4bangertj]

I say, wait till a deal on a used set of savvy/currie arms pops up. You might have to rebuild some joints, but you can save some money there for other mods.

I’m not very familiar, what is the UCF 2in tuck? I believe that a full tummy tuck should come wayy before a midarm/outboard.

I got the metalcloak coils and 2in deep skid (believe the savvy and other full tucks are only 1in deep) on marketplace for 150 bucks so it was a huge improvement for cheap. I will end up full tucked but need a body lift (which I’ll need anyways for the mid arm) but figured that the 2in was an incremental benefit over stock I didn’t have to think of 1in difference for a bit and could find other ways that would impact capability more.
so then that begs the question of my whole build, what order should I do all my stuff to be the most effective within my limits of a parking lot and college kid donating plasma to get jeep money?

 

[PNW_LJ]

I got the metalcloak coils and 2in deep skid (believe the savvy and other full tucks are only 1in deep) on marketplace for 150 bucks so it was a huge improvement for cheap. I will end up full tucked but need a body lift (which I’ll need anyways for the mid arm) but figured that the 2in was an incremental benefit over stock I didn’t have to think of 1in difference for a bit and could find other ways that would impact capability more.
so then that begs the question of my whole build, what order should I do all my stuff to be the most effective within my limits of a parking lot and college kid donating plasma to get jeep money?

I guess the question is, what are you not liking about your current setup? Is there a limiting factor, be it belly clearance, traction or something else?

I'm currently wheeling an LJ on 31s and stock belly skid, and by far my biggest limiting factor is belly clearance. I will belly out much earlier than I run out of clearance/traction/shock travel.

 

[The4bangertj]

I guess the question is, what are you not liking about your current setup? Is there a limiting factor, be it belly clearance, traction or something else?

I'm currently wheeling an LJ on 31s and stock belly skid, and by far my biggest limiting factor is belly clearance. I will belly out much earlier than I run out of clearance/traction/shock travel.

Biggest thing has been traction from open diffs and hopping. Now I have lockers (still need to plum the lines) but I’d assume that will solve the traction problem and then see if my hopping was more expressive because of the open diffs or my geometry is really that bad.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Here's my opinion as a fellow college kid, take it for what it's worth:

I assume your end goal is the standard TJ 35s setup, right? You already have built/locked axles. That's a huge one, probably close to half of the entire build cost.

This is what I would do to minimize paying for things twice:

1. Get remaining savvy arms and springs. This improves your current limiting factor (stock arms), and gets you to ideal ride height.

2. Full Tummy tuck - BL, MML, SYE, better skid. And only then driveshafts. This allows you to only buy driveshafts once and not have to pay to get them lengthened.

3. Chromoly shafts. I don't recall hearing you had them in your new axles.

4. 35s. Maybe try to focus on a lighter wheel/tire setup to help out your 2.5L?


—- Do the supporting mods here. Swayloc, the $9 uptravel trick, etc., and then some time down the line:

5. Midarm/outboard - the order of these is debatable. I went midarm from the start because I was starting from stock, and I had the cash left over after buying my LJ. The good news is that your used savvy arms and rear TB are still worth a pretty penny and could fund a good portion of the kit. I'm not sure you could do either of these mods in your apt parking lot tho, might need to borrow someone's garage for a week or so.

 

[tworley]

@rasband is the one in the bfh video.

It really depends on what you are going to do with your jeep and where you are going to be wheeling. If you're wheeling just fine on what you currently have, then get a quality set of control arms and outboard. If you're still struggling to crawl and understand the benefits of the midarm, then I'd upgrade.

 

[jjvw]

...

5. Midarm/outboard - the order of these is debatable. I went midarm from the start because I was starting from stock, and I had the cash left over after buying my LJ. The good news is that your used savvy arms and rear TB are still worth a pretty penny and could fund a good portion of the kit. I'm not sure you could do either of these mods in your apt parking lot tho, might need to borrow someone's garage for a week or so.

Not at all debatable. An outboard with a good tuned shocks will provide more usable benefit at all times. Whereas the midarm addresses one specific problem that is not likely to show itself until after a much larger build and bigger trails than what is being discussed here.

 

[The4bangertj]

Here's my opinion as a fellow college kid, take it for what it's worth:

I assume your end goal is the standard and proven TJ 35s setup, right? You already have built/locked axles. That's a huge one, probably close to half of the entire build cost.

This is what I would do to minimize paying for things twice:

1. Get remaining savvy arms and springs. This improves your current limiting factor (stock arms), and gets you to ideal ride height.

2. Full Tummy tuck - BL, MML, SYE, better skid. And only then driveshafts. This allows you to only buy driveshafts once and not have to pay to get them lengthened.

3. Chromoly shafts. I don't recall hearing you had them in your new axles.

4. 35s. Maybe try to focus on a lighter wheel/tire setup to help out your 2.5L?


—- Do the supporting mods here. Swayloc, the $9 uptravel trick, etc., and then some time down the line:

5. Midarm/outboard - the order of these is debatable. I went midarm from the start because I was starting from stock, and I had the cash left over after buying my LJ. The good news is that your used savvy arms and rear TB are still worth a pretty penny and could fund a good portion of the kit. I'm not sure you could do either of these mods in your apt parking lot tho, might need to borrow someone's garage for a week or so.

That’s was basically my original thought but wanted to make sure. Yes goal is the standard tj on 35s that this forum has perfected. The new axles do not have chromo shaft so that will be done before I jump to 35s. My tire size hasn’t been the limiting factor so I was going to do everything before, that includes deeper gears since these axles only have 4.56. I do have new Tom woods driveshafts front and rear and shouldn’t have any problems going 1in up on the skid with their length.

@rasband is the one in the bfh video.

It really depends on what you are going to do with your jeep and where you are going to be wheeling. If you're wheeling just fine on what you currently have, then get a quality set of control arms and outboard. If you're still struggling to crawl and understand the benefits of the midarm, then I'd upgrade.

I have gotten much farther than I thought I could especially with open diffs but the only time I’ve had to winch as been steep inclines where wheels spin and I have hopped a decent amount taking me off the line and getting me stuck. So yes I would like the antisquat correction as the biggest benifit for me with the mid arm but it’s just the limit of tools and money to do it.

So sounds like I should do the short arms and see how much of a benefit the mid arm will do now with lockers addressing the traction problem.

Not at all debatable. An outboard with a good tuned shocks will provide more usable benefit at all times. Whereas the midarm addresses one specific problem that is not likely to show itself until after a much larger build and bigger trails than what is being discussed here.

so would I need to swap to currie coils to set bump on the compressed coil before or could I still be able to have the same bump stop I have now with metal cloak coils and the all currie rear bumps in?

 

[PNW_LJ]

Not at all debatable. An outboard with a good tuned shocks will provide more usable benefit at all times.

I haven't experienced either, so I won't disagree, but what benefits does an outboard provide beyond better travel/travel ratio and being able to slap a high-end shock on there?

Whereas the midarm addresses one specific problem that is not likely to show itself until after a much larger build and bigger trails than what is being discussed here.

While it may not prevent one from making an obstacle, more stability and traction during climbs is something that can be appreciated regardless of outboarding.

 

[jjvw]

I haven't experienced either, so I won't disagree, but what benefits does an outboard provide beyond better travel/travel ratio and being able to slap a high-end shock on there?

While it may not prevent one from making an obstacle, more stability and traction during climbs is something that can be appreciated regardless of outboarding.

A good shock tune can be appreciated everytime and nearly everywhere you drive the Jeep. That can be on the rocks or going to the grocery store.

The midarm is effectively invisible and does it's job wheel you don't notice the suspension doing weird things anymore. If a rig without a midarm isn't doing weird suspension things in the places you take it, then there is no real benefit to the midarm.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Just one more thing, I think it's important to look at what folks use in your area and what works/doesn't. Up here in the PNW, you will rarely see a "Blaine-type" build. Most of the rigs on the hardest trails look something like this:

In my limited wheeling experience, I believe that for PNW trails, tire size and staying narrow/short-ish is much more important than optimizing shock travel or suspension geometry. That could change as I get more experience.

In a way, I'm probably building the wrong type of rig for our type of wheeling, but my goal is to have a jack of all trades build that I will take to moab, rubicon, fordyce etc. and excel there.

 

[jjvw]

.... So yes I would like the antisquat correction as the biggest benifit for me with the mid arm but it’s just the limit of tools and money to do it.

So sounds like I should do the short arms and see how much of a benefit the mid arm will do now with lockers addressing the traction problem.


...

Installing a midarm before lockers is even more backwards than what I did with mine.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Installing a midarm before lockers is even more backwards than what I did with mine.

He already has lockers.

 

[jjvw]

He already has lockers.

Good. Now he needs to focus on shocks

 

[PNW_LJ]

Good. Now he needs to focus on shocks

Tummy tuck and 35s first.

 

[The4bangertj]

Good

Yes just got a 30/44 from an 05 lj with arbs f/r and 4.56. No way I could do a mid arm before lockers. Interested to see if my hopping will be much better since I won’t loose traction nearly as much causing it. Glad to know I’m crazy to rush the mid arm and work on outboard and full tuck before.

 

[JMT]

He already has lockers.

They're not hooked up yet. Needs to do that and wheel it for awhile. I didn't see obstacles that really needed a midarm in my most recent outing to Moab. I was wheeling with a guy who has a midarm. I wasn't hopping around on obstacles.