Help with Gears and Lockers

[Irun]

The absolute best bang for your buck would be to install an Eaton ELocker up front, with 4340 shafts. Then leave the rear alone, until you find it is a limiting factor. This gives you a true locker, for when needed, and open wheeling for running the beach. As @JMT said, a locker up front will get you places you'd not expect.

Another plus here is you'll never have to worry about ever breaking a carrier, and weight is kept to a minimum.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Depends on the intended use really. The TruTrac provides extremely road-friendly operation with considerable advantages on-road as well as providing many benefits in the majority of off-road terrains (sans rock crawling, which the OP stated doesn't apply). It also does so without the quirks and negative attributes of an auto-locker. In all my rigs that don't/didn't see rocks on a regular basis, the TruTrac has been my go-to for decades now and have never had one give me trouble. I would even say that the TruTrac is my preferred traction aid where wheel speed is more important than placement (mud, sand, etc).


I think you're gonna want more gearing than 4.10's and even your originally proposed 4.56's with 33"s, especially if beach visits are frequent.

i agree.

I think it depends on application, too. In my case, I hardly ever lift a rear tire, so a trutrac in the rear probably wouldn't have been a terrible choice for me. I have failed on obstacles due to my open front though when the front driveshaft torque twisted the front axle and lifted the driver front, which is why I just put in a lunchbox. Gotta have a real locker up there.

 

[pc1p]

I hardly ever lift a rear tire, so a trutrac in the rear probably wouldn't have been a terrible choice for me. I have failed on obstacles due to my open front though when the front driveshaft torque twisted the front axle and lifted the driver front, which is why I just put in a lunchbox. Gotta have a real locker up there.

Without a doubt - in AZ, a front locker by itself was quite impressive. Even on an older YJ with a LL in front and rebuilt OEM TracLok rear, it went many more places than I would have expected (esp when compared to open front/worn out LSD rear).

 

[TRE3TOP]

My buddy in TX is ~15 hours of driving away from the nearest worthwhile rock crawling - I think he said he'd rather drag his balls across hot TX asphalt and then dive into the Gulf before making a 15 hour drive in a Jeep

Is he aware of “wolf caves” which is located in Texas? Surely he’s not 15 hours from there.

 

[Gunnersmate]

Axles, Gears and Lockers the Bane of every Jeeper. That being said I would not put one thin dime in a 30/35 save your money and do 44/44 yes its more expensive but you can recoup some expenses by selling your old axles, I have seen matched rubi axles front and back go for around 3500 to 4000 a pair. I am personally building my own axles right now, so some info you may or may not know. Dana 44 HP(High Pinion) Axles have been installed in both 1/2 ton and 3/4 trucks since at least the 1960s.
Axle Specs Front Dana 44 HP is Available in 3 different types That I know of.
Type 1 Dana HP plain Jane has 2.75 Inch Diameter Axle Tubes 3200 lbs load rate Found in Ford trucks 1/2 and 3/4 ton
Type 2 Dana HPHD Heavy duty 3.00 inch Axle tubes 3500 Lbs load rate found in ford trucks 3/4 ton and 1/ton
Type 3 Jeep JK Dana 44 has a slighter bigger Ring and Pinion gear than type 1 & 2 and can be modified for a Jeep TJ
There are probably other applications and variations of the Dana 44 that I have not listed.
Some other shit you need to know Bigger Ring and Pinion Gear is better, Bigger Diameter Pinion Shaft is better, Thicker Axle tubes are better, Bigger U joints are better.
The Type 1 Dana is plenty strong in stock fashion for moderate wheeling.
The Type 2 Dana is even better and can be modified to accept a dana 50 Ring and Pinion and Dana 60 Axles and King Pins or Ball joints which is what I am building for my rig.
Save your money and at the very least find some Rubi Axles or Build your own Axle
My rear Axle build will probably be a 8.8 ford with full floater GM 14 bolt tubes and disc brakes
So my rig will have the Front Dana 44HPHD with GM Dana 60 from the diff to the hubs and Ford 8.8 Rear Diff with GM 14 Bolt for the diff to the Hub this simplifies buying brakes and other odd and ends.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Axles, Gears and Lockers the Bane of every Jeeper. That being said I would not put one thin dime in a 30/35 save your money and do 44/44 yes its more expensive but you can recoup some expenses by selling your old axles

A front Dana 30 can easily be made to handle 35's and wheeling that is tough enough to scare 99% of all Jeepers. Not to mention a Rubicon front Dana 44 handles nothing any bigger than the Dana 30 can.

 

[Gunnersmate]

A front Dana 30 can easily be made to handle 35's and wheeling that is tough enough to scare 99% of all Jeepers. Not to mention a Rubicon front Dana 44 handles nothing any bigger than the Dana 30 can.

Jerry What is the $$$$ amount difference between a built 30/35 and a pair of axles from a Rubi, I mean a guy can drop 20K plus on axles if he wants a portal axle set up but there is no way I would buy a Locker and RCV axles and pay for a master gear kit and gears for a dana 30 or 35 and pay some one to install it all if I did not know how
ARB Lockers are a 1000 RCV axles are 1700, R&P and Master Install Kits 1000 and probably another 400 per axle for R&P Setup
ARB Locker 1000
Axles front only 1700
R&P Gears and Master Install KIt for both front and rear 750 -1000
Labor 700-1000
I would estimate on the Cheap per axle front 3500.00 Rear 2500.00
Plus the OBA Compressor theres another 500-1000

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Jerry What is the $$$$ amount difference between a built 30/35 and a pair of axles from a Rubi, I mean a guy can drop 20K plus on axles if he wants a portal axle set up but there is no way I would buy a Locker and RCV axles and pay for a master gear kit and gears for a dana 30 or 35 and pay some one to install it all if I did not know how

I was only talking about the Dana 30. Add a set of the right alloy axle shafts and it's stronger where it counts than the TJ Rubicon front Dana 44 is. Not to mention that Dana 44 is 3/4 pure Dana 30.

 

[Pokahpolice]

Jerry What is the $$$$ amount difference between a built 30/35 and a pair of axles from a Rubi, I mean a guy can drop 20K plus on axles if he wants a portal axle set up but there is no way I would buy a Locker and RCV axles and pay for a master gear kit and gears for a dana 30 or 35 and pay some one to install it all if I did not know how
ARB Lockers are a 1000 RCV axles are 1700, R&P and Master Install Kits 1000 and probably another 400 per axle for R&P Setup
ARB Locker 1000
Axles front only 1700
R&P Gears and Master Install KIt for both front and rear 750 -1000
Labor 700-1000
I would estimate on the Cheap per axle front 3500.00 Rear 2500.00
Plus the OBA Compressor theres another 500-1000

$1700 is bit high on fronts. Revolution has USA made front axles kits for just under $1000. They have a kit with the ARB locker for $2100. But you're point is valid. I just haven't seen any examples of Rubicon axles available on the market that weren't absolutely rusted to hell.

 

[Gunnersmate]

I was only talking about the Dana 30. Add a set of the right alloy axle shafts and it's stronger where it counts than the TJ Rubicon front Dana 44 is. Not to mention that Dana 44 is 3/4 pure Dana 30.

I Respect your knowledge and agree with you to a point on the alloy axles but, the money side does not add up in my ledger and he still has a 35 in the back, I found a Pair of TJ Dana 44 Complete Rubi axles last night for 4k Lockers 4:10 gears bolt in sell the old 30/35 combo and your out pocket is 3000-3500. Jack Jack stands and some basic hand tools driveway install 1-2 day , Bullet Proof with new Alloy / RCVs Axles a little further down the road or when the pocket book allows. If Dana 30's were the bomb diggity Currie would have one for 5,300.00

 

[Gunnersmate]

Besides not all of us are the Finese Mastero offroader Me especially I Need a Cat D9 and I would probably still break something.

 

[pc1p]

I Respect your knowledge and agree with you to a point on the alloy axles but, the money side does not add up in my ledger and he still has a 35 in the back, I found a Pair of TJ Dana 44 Complete Rubi axles last night for 4k Lockers 4:10 gears bolt in sell the old 30/35 combo and your out pocket is 3000-3500. Jack Jack stands and some basic hand tools driveway install 1-2 day , Bullet Proof with new Alloy / RCVs Axles a little further down the road or when the pocket book allows. If Dana 30's were the bomb diggity Currie would have one for 5,300.00

He'd be into the Rubi axles for $3500 and would still need to spend $1500 to get some proper gears (unless he's gonna run around on factory 31"s), and probably another $1200 to at least replace the rear locker (which are notoriously failure prone).

I think Jerry's point was that even at the end of the day - a Dana 44 front axle offers no overall advantage in strength over a comparably built Dana 30. While the Dana 44 gearset is stronger, the gearset isn't typically a problem for 99.999% of built TJs on 35"s. The hub bearings and balljoints are the culprits - and they're identical on the TJ Dana 44.

Don't base "what's good" on what Currie does. This is like saying the Beretta 92FS is the ideal pistol because it's what the Army uses. They're in the market to sell parts and more than half of sales is convincing people that they need something. Be hard to convince a Jeep owner with a Dana 30 that a Currie Dana 30 is worth their asking price. There are plenty of TJ Currie 9" housings running around as evidence to poor market decisions

 

[Gunnersmate]

He'd be into the Rubi axles for $3500 and would still need to spend $1500 to get some proper gears (unless he's gonna run around on factory 31"s), and probably another $1200 to at least replace the rear locker (which are notoriously failure prone).

I think Jerry's point was that even at the end of the day - a Dana 44 front axle offers no overall advantage in strength over a comparably built Dana 30. While the Dana 44 gearset is stronger, the gearset isn't typically a problem for 99.999% of built TJs on 35"s. The hub bearings and balljoints are the culprits - and they're identical on the TJ Dana 44.

Don't base "what's good" on what Currie does. This is like saying the Beretta 92FS is the ideal pistol because it's what the Army uses. They're in the market to sell parts and more than half of sales is convincing people that they need something. Be hard to convince a Jeep owner with a Dana 30 that a Currie Dana 30 is worth their asking price. There are plenty of TJ Currie 9" housings running around as evidence to poor market decisions

See I did not know that about the Ball Joints or the Rubi Locker or the Unit Bearing, I am doing a King pin build so I did not chase that info down

 

[pc1p]

My rear Axle build will probably be a 8.8 ford with full floater GM 14 bolt tubes and disc brakes
So my rig will have the Front Dana 44HPHD with GM Dana 60 from the diff to the hubs and Ford 8.8 Rear Diff with GM 14 Bolt for the diff to the Hub this simplifies buying brakes and other odd and ends.

Why build such a hybrid/bastard axle set? What tire size you shooting for? Will you be adding wheelbase?

I can't for the life of me understand by you're bastardizing a Dana 60/14B...

 

[pc1p]

Is he aware of “wolf caves” which is located in Texas? Surely he’s not 15 hours from there.

That place looks cool - I've never heard of it. Reminds me of the terrain from the Tremors movie! Looks like a more reasonable ~5 hour drive for him...

 

[Gunnersmate]

Why build such a hybrid/bastard axle set? What tire size you shooting for? Will you be adding wheelbase?

I can't for the life of me understand by you're bastardizing a Dana 60/14B...

Because I can, seriously I just want to and besides I already have the D44HPHD Differential also have an old dana 50 out of a ford excursion and the 14 bolt FF out of an old Suburban. You can shoehorn a Dana 50 R&P into a Dana 44 and run D/60 GM Kingpin Set up and lose zero Ground Clearance and you only give up 1/2 of an inch +/- in Ground Clearance going to an 8.8 vs the Dana 44 for the Rear and who would not want a full floater Rear 1/2 thick DOM Axle tubes Front and Rear larger Diameter Axles, Larger R&P Front and Rear less unsprung weight vs 14 bolt Dana 60 set up less loss of ground clearance vs 14bolt Dana 60 setup bigger u joints and stock off the shelf GM Brakes and bearings for the Hubs front and back and Disc Brakes on all four corners and a wider WMS to WMS for Bigger Tires and who doesn't love bigger tires.
Bigger Brakes
Bigger Axles
Bigger R&P
Thicker Axle Tubes
Bigger U Joints
Less Weight
Less Loss of Ground Clearance
Full Floater Rear
Parts Availability Brakes Bearings Ect
Wider WMS better tire clearance / less rubbing during turns
No more Unit Bearings / Manual Lockout Hubs Are Serviceable
Plenty of Aftermarket Support for the 14 Bolt, D/60, Ford 8.8, D50
And I have a Mill, a Lathe and Welder, and like building and improving stuff

 

[TRE3TOP]

Because I can, seriously I just want to and besides I already have the D44HPHD Differential also have an old dana 50 out of a ford excursion and the 14 bolt FF out of an old Suburban. You can shoehorn a Dana 50 R&P into a Dana 44 and run D/60 GM Kingpin Set up and lose zero Ground Clearance and you only give up 1/2 of an inch +/- in Ground Clearance going to an 8.8 vs the Dana 44 for the Rear and who would not want a full floater Rear 1/2 thick DOM Axle tubes Front and Rear larger Diameter Axles, Larger R&P Front and Rear less unsprung weight vs 14 bolt Dana 60 set up less loss of ground clearance vs 14bolt Dana 60 setup bigger u joints and stock off the shelf GM Brakes and bearings for the Hubs front and back and Disc Brakes on all four corners and a wider WMS to WMS for Bigger Tires and who doesn't love bigger tires.
Bigger Brakes
Bigger Axles
Bigger R&P
Thicker Axle Tubes
Bigger U Joints
Less Weight
Less Loss of Ground Clearance
Parts Availability Brakes Bearings Ect
Wider WMS better tire clearance / less rubbing during turns
No more Unit Bearings / Manual Lockout Hubs Are Serviceable
Plenty of Aftermarket Support for the 14 Bolt, D/60, Ford 8.8, D50
And I have a Mill, a Lathe and Welder, and like building and improving stuff

To me… those sound perfect.

 

[JMT]

That place looks cool - I've never heard of it. Reminds me of the terrain from the Tremors movie! Looks like a more reasonable ~5 hour drive for him...

Wolf Caves used to be 45 minutes from my house. Its where i started wheelin. There and Hidden Falls. It can get nasty. Wolf Caves is in Mason, TX. Kurt and Camilla Eppler own it. I wish I could go back. I miss it. 35's would help, a little. Hidden Falls is in Marble Falls. It's a great place to wheel too, but i't s mainly limestone and dirt rather than granite.

This image is from Katemcy Rocks which is the adjacent property to Wolf Caves. It's all the same type of terrain.

 

[Godzilla54]

You two are making me question this hard right now. The super 35 kits are 1200 not including R&P or bearings and seals unless I'm missing something which increases this build quite a bit.

Do yourself a favor, and find a good used Dana 44 for your model and year. It's worth every penny, and in my humble opinion, much stronger and forgiving than the 35. I kept my Dana 30 on the front, but went straight to the 44 in the rear. I've used a Detroit locker in my Jeep's since I started . My Commando, CJ 5 & 7 , YJ, and now my TJ. You get used to to clunking, and driving on wet or snowy roads, but they never let you down when it comes to traction. A limited slip or a lunchbox locker in the front should be all you'll need if you stick to the style of off roading you do. Join a local Jeep or 4X4 club. Members become brothers and sisters. They upgrade. They have good used parts ! They have knowledge and they work on each other's rides. Sometimes they give away parts that have been taking up space. Just remember that if you take, you should also give.

 

[Willhugh]

I could be mistaken here, but I believe the expensive part of the super 35 kit is the carrier replacement, and that gets taken care of by whichever locker you decide to go with. At the end of the day the cost difference between building the 35 and switching to a 44 is the cost of the 1541 axle shafts ~ $300, vs the cost of a complete 44 axle assembly $?. You're going to pay for a locker and gearing regardless of which housing you use. The super 35 should be plenty strong, plus lighter and better ground clearance.