05 Flame Red TJ Build

JMT said:
Raceline discusses the typical tapped aluminum bolt holes that could be stripped or a bolt broken off. Raceline avoided this and went with a hardened steel insert that can be trail fixed. I don’t know if that’s really better or not, but they made it sound better.
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I'm curious to hear what Blaine says here, because even the steel insert is still going into aluminum. Seems like the sleeve would spin if over torqued, so maybe it's the "trail fix" part that is important. :unsure:
 
@Irun, I don’t know how you could tap in that steel insert from the backside of the wheel on the trail. Seems to me you’d have to remove the tire and start all over. At any rate, at least the wheel wouldn’t be stripped out.
 
JMT said:
@mrblaine What is the purpose of torquing incrementally before the ring touches?
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Ignorance and lack of understanding of how things work. It is of zero usefulness to do it that way.
JMT said:
Especially if you’re not going to be reaching final torque till the ring is touching the wheel? All you’re doing incrementally is smashing the tire bead.
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You won't even reach final torque when the ring touches at first. The final torque on each bolt will not be achieved until the ring stops levering inward at the bolt fulcrum and compressing the bead. They all cone the ring to some degree and until everything stops moving, the bolts won't come up to final torque value where each one is seeing the same load until that stops. The only way to get there is after the ring touches and you tighten a bolt and it does not loosen the ones on either side of it. Until then, incremental torque settings are just an exercise in time wasting.
 
JMT said:
@Irun, I don’t know how you could tap in that steel insert from the backside of the wheel on the trail. Seems to me you’d have to remove the tire and start all over. At any rate, at least the wheel wouldn’t be stripped out.
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Does stripping out a beadlock fastener happen frequently on the trail? My TR's don't have anything fancy like that and they seem to be holding torque fine.
 
JMT said:
@Irun, I don’t know how you could tap in that steel insert from the backside of the wheel on the trail. Seems to me you’d have to remove the tire and start all over. At any rate, at least the wheel wouldn’t be stripped out.
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Since these are installed from the back side, I'm guessing they simply "bite" into the aluminum and hold that way. However, I'm unsure if that is how it truly works.
 
mrblaine said:
If the lock ring won't move in until it touches the rim, you have a problem that needs fixed.
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And that fix is a spacer between the wheel and the ring.
mrblaine said:
Ignorance and lack of understanding of how things work. It is of zero usefulness to do it that way.

You won't even reach final torque when the ring touches at first. The final torque on each bolt will not be achieved until the ring stops levering inward at the bolt fulcrum and compressing the bead. They all cone the ring to some degree and until everything stops moving, the bolts won't come up to final torque value where each one is seeing the same load until that stops. The only way to get there is after the ring touches and you tighten a bolt and it does not loosen the ones on either side of it. Until then, incremental torque settings are just an exercise in time wasting.
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ok, that’s what made sense to me. As far as my statement that final torque won’t be reached till the ring touches, I just meant it has to touch before you can get to final torque, not that it will be reached when it touches. From what I’ve read on a 32 bolt system the ring will usually touch about 10ft/lbs and most need 14-18ft/lbs if the bolt is a 5/16-18 and not to exceed 20ft/lbs.
 
Irun said:
I'm curious to hear what Blaine says here, because even the steel insert is still going into aluminum. Seems like the sleeve would spin if over torqued, so maybe it's the "trail fix" part that is important. :unsure:
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No, they don't spin. It is likely a generic equivalent of a PEM nut. They are designed for that and don't spin when pressed into the proper size hole. We've done and run all 3 of the common methods. Threaded holes in the rim, press in inserts, and then threaded inserts that are solid like a Time sert.

I prefer the threaded press in inserts. I don't prefer them enough to pick a bead lock based on that criterion. They all work fine. The ring is a bigger issue.
 
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Irun said:
Since these are installed from the back side, I'm guessing they simply "bite" into the aluminum and hold that way. However, I'm unsure if that is how it truly works.
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That’s what it looks like to me, bites into the aluminum similar to our windshield wipers and some other part I have run across before on our TJ’s but can’t recall right now.
 
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mrblaine said:
No, what we run into a bunch is the rocks spinning the bolt out, next rock snaps it off, now you have a problem.
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Is that more on a wheel like this, versus one where the bolts are recessed?
1652465508801.png
 
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mrblaine said:
No, they don't spin. It is likely a generic equivalent of a PEM nut. They are designed for that and don't spin when pressed into the proper size hole. We've done and run all 3 of the common methods. Threaded holes in the rim, press in inserts, and then threaded inserts that are solid like a Time sert.

I prefer the threaded press in inserts. I don't prefer them enough to pick a bead lock based on that criterion. They all work fine. The ring is a bigger issue.
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What’s the bigger issue with the ring?
 
JMT said:
What’s the bigger issue with the ring?
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The Method rings are slightly harder than chilly peanut butter. Not cold, just chilly. You can actually see the ring bend and deflect inward between the bolt you are tightening and the one next to it. I would not run a free set of very custom Methods in any iteration purely for that reason. They also put flat seats instead of slightly angled so the bolt sits fairly flat when the slight coning happens. That causes lot of issues.

Steel rings just bend all over the place and don't care. I don't like them as much because they typically don't center the tire as well.

I don't like the old Champion rings because they didn't get on the thicker ring band wagon and recess the bolts some but they did have angled seats and they were 6061 T-6.

The aluminum Raceline and Trailready rings are not bad.
 
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