What is the appropriate wheelbase and overall width for 37-40 inch tires?

Thunder Mass

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This should go without saying, I WILL NOT be using my 30/44 axles…



If you want to read the giant post below to understand where my ideas are coming from, please do so. If not, in a nutshell:

I have an LJ with a 4” lift and a 1.25” body lift, on the stock wheelbase (103-104?). Keeping the suspension and body lift, what would be the appropriate wheelbase and (EDIT) overall width for tires ranging from 37-40”?



For the long winded explanation…

My ’05 LJ is currently on 35s, 4” short arm/1.25 BL and tummy tuck, 73.5” (EDIT) overall width.



I bent my LP30 in Oregon a few years back, and replaced it with a trussed/gusseted HP30. A few months later, I chipped the ring gear teeth in Moab. Then this past EJS, I bent the housing again, despite the truss/gussets. Obviously, the 30 isn’t cutting it for me. So my first problem is a weak front axle, and a rear that probably isn’t that much better.



Second is my departure. I have a 32 gallon Genright tank, which is great for long trips and remote trails, but awful for wheeling. I often slam down on it and my rear bumper. I MIGHT be able to raise the tank up a bit because of the BL, and maybe raise the bumper too. Maybe.

Last, my short arms don’t seem to give me a lot of articulation, I often feel more tippy than I’d like on some trails in Moab.



So in order, I’m looking to:

Upgrade my front (and rear) axle strength

Improve my approach/departure angle

Gain more articulation/travel



With all that being said… how can I accomplish this?

If I keep the 35s, I figure a ECGS 489 axle would be the best bet, or alternatively JK/JL Rubicon axles. That fixes my axle strength issue.

I don’t think 37s will be a night and day difference for my departure issues, but it should help a little bit. I’m not entirely convinced a 489 front/rear will survive with 37s, though. I could go to 60s, but that might not fit with my 32 gallon tank, and I’ll lose a lot of diff clearance. At least I should be able to keep my wheelbase, right?

With 39/40s, I know I’ll have to stretch my wheelbase, and lose the 32 gallon tank for a 26. But how much stretch is needed? And I'll need 60s at minimum, if not larger in the rear.

Unfortunatly, I live in Washington, where fender flares are a must. My tentative plan is to go from the 6.5” flares I have to 7” flares, and do the DIY AEV highline. I figure that’s about 2-3” more clearance? And approximately 74” tire coverage. State law says full coverage is necessary, though no one follows it. I figure I could probably get away with a 76” (EDIT) overall width, 78” max. Also, I want to stay somewhat narrow for some of the trails up here, hence no more lift, and only highlines.

For articulation, I know long arms aren’t well received here, which is why I went with (Currie) short arms. And though I’ve never been hung up on them, I am left somewhat wanting in the area of travel and smoothness. When talking about tires larger than 35, and wheelbases greater than 103, should I be looking into mid arms? Or at this point are long arms okay?
 
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I think the budget would be a necessary first step here. Other than that, I think you need to take a trip to see @mrblaine

The budget will be what it is, but if it can't be built to the specs I need (track width), I won't even bother pursuing this any further.
 
The budget will be what it is, but if it can't be built to the specs I need (track width), I won't even bother pursuing this any further.

Well if that's the case. Everything you are looking for is easily attainable. I think you would be fine on 37s with the 32 gal tank. That being said, you probably need to step up your axles. I will be running a Ford 9 rear and Dana 44 front and will eventually move to 37s once all my other big ticket items are taken care of, but if you don't need the weight of the Dana 60s then don't swap them in. Nate Pickel in the Tacoma area has a diesel TJ on 44/9 and he is stretched but I don't think he would need to be stretchedif he were just on 37s. Also, if you have a beefy gas tank skid, who cares if you come down on it occasionally. I would say, maybe a mild stretch front and rear, with Dana 44HP/9, midarms if you want a suspension upgrade, and make sure your bump stops are on point and you should be good to go.
 
What is your desired belly height, Tire size, and wheelbase. Try to picture a TJ on 35's with a 1" drop on the belly. Extrapolate from there. You'll probably need to gain a few inches in track width for the bigger tires (the bigger tire will come closer to the body, given the same articulation of a smaller tire).

"long arm" or Mid arm...those terms are purely subjective. You design the arms to generally give good geometery at ride hight, but more importantly, make sure they fit.
 
@mrblaine This man right here will happily help 😉
Edit- Give you some tips/info rather

There are a lot of misconceptions going on there, not sure if I have the stamina to get them all sorted.

Based on what he has written and if it is accurate, he doesn't understand why shocks are important and why arm length is secondary.
The big fuel tank will never not kick his ass.
There is a reasonable balance between wheelbase, tire size and belly clearance that needs to be paid attention to.
He doesn't have enough axle and none of his options are enough for 37's either based on the destruction level of his 30's.
Track width is the center of the tire the way I understand it. 78" track width puts it at minimum 80" outside of tire to outside of tire and that is very wide. I'd prefer to work off of WMS plus rim width and backspacing to figure out a width.
 
Have you ever actually had an issue with fender coverage?

I run no rear flares, and will soon be moving to my 0” front fenders. I’ve never had any issue with the cops, and I daily drive mine to the downtown Seattle area.


Though aesthetically I prefer the look of 3-4” flares, I can’t afford to smash one on a tree.
 
Have you ever actually had an issue with fender coverage?

I run no rear flares, and will soon be moving to my 0” front fenders. I’ve never had any issue with the cops, and I daily drive mine to the downtown Seattle area.


Though aesthetically I prefer the look of 3-4” flares, I can’t afford to smash one on a tree.

I did years ago but they seem to have stopped enforcing it lately. Last time I got pulled over it was in my Ram and it was for flares & mudflaps but that was around 2015.

Doesn't mean I totally agree with running no flares.
 
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I did years ago but they seem to have stopped enforcing it lately. Last time I got pulled over it was in my Ram and it was for flares & mudflaps but that was around 2015.
What city was this in?
Doesn't mean I totally agree with running no flares.

I’ll be getting removable mud flaps, if only for my own sanity. I’d get removable flares too, but there isn’t a solution out there that I like.
 
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What city was this in?

State Patrol between Moses Lake & Ritzville


Edit: Every time I've been pulled over it's been by State Patrol. I've never been stopped by a city officer.

I’ll be getting removable mud flaps, if only for my own sanity. I’d get removable flares too, but there isn’t a solution out there that I like.

Since I don't DD mine I ain't too worried about mud flaps. While many don't like the Metal Cloak look I do for what it offers.
 
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Well if that's the case. Everything you are looking for is easily attainable. I think you would be fine on 37s with the 32 gal tank. That being said, you probably need to step up your axles. I will be running a Ford 9 rear and Dana 44 front and will eventually move to 37s once all my other big ticket items are taken care of, but if you don't need the weight of the Dana 60s then don't swap them in. Nate Pickel in the Tacoma area has a diesel TJ on 44/9 and he is stretched but I don't think he would need to be stretchedif he were just on 37s. Also, if you have a beefy gas tank skid, who cares if you come down on it occasionally. I would say, maybe a mild stretch front and rear, with Dana 44HP/9, midarms if you want a suspension upgrade, and make sure your bump stops are on point and you should be good to go.

Let me rephrase... Budget will what allows me to do this in 6 months, or 2 years, or maybe never. But I am now more concerned with what I can do based on physical/dimension limitations.

I'm thinking a well built 44 front can handle the 37s, maybe. I'm curious about the Ford 9". The 489 has a 8.9" ring gear, so pretty close to the Ford. But, the ring looks a lot thicker.

I'll look for Nate on here.

For the fuel tank, it has a thick skid on it, but it's not pleasant to slam down on it while on the trails. I'd like to have a better departure if I can.
 
What is your desired belly height, Tire size, and wheelbase. Try to picture a TJ on 35's with a 1" drop on the belly. Extrapolate from there. You'll probably need to gain a few inches in track width for the bigger tires (the bigger tire will come closer to the body, given the same articulation of a smaller tire).

"long arm" or Mid arm...those terms are purely subjective. You design the arms to generally give good geometery at ride hight, but more importantly, make sure they fit.

I guess I don't know my desired belly height. I'll measure when I get home, but I think it's around 19"? I could be totally off. I have 35s, a 4" lift, and an UCF tummy tuck that claimes 3.5" clearance.

I can't really gain much in track/overall width, that's my main issue.

I guess it seems my short arms aren't super smooth on/off road, and get me more tippy than other vehicles.
There are a lot of misconceptions going on there, not sure if I have the stamina to get them all sorted.

Based on what he has written and if it is accurate, he doesn't understand why shocks are important and why arm length is secondary.
That's why I'm here.

I don't remember the exact shocks, but I got OME shocks that were confirmed on here to be the right shocks, so...
The big fuel tank will never not kick his ass.
That is something I've come to realize. I'm not saying 37s will fix all of my issues, but I figure it'll help my departure angle a little. If not, I'll need to replace the tank and stretch. Even without the tank, the LJ tub is, what, 2" longer than a TJ behind rear axle?
There is a reasonable balance between wheelbase, tire size and belly clearance that needs to be paid attention to.
Agreed, that's what I'm trying to find out. But is tummy height frame or tcase skid?
He doesn't have enough axle and none of his options are enough for 37's either based on the destruction level of his 30's.
489, 9", 60, none of those can handle 37s or larger?
Track width is the center of the tire the way I understand it. 78" track width puts it at minimum 80" outside of tire to outside of tire and that is very wide. I'd prefer to work off of WMS plus rim width and backspacing to figure out a width.
You got me there, I confused track width with overall width. As close to 74" overall width is the best. 76" is okay, but 78" is the max. And that is for a combination of fender flare coverage, and narrow trails in Washington.

I thought it made sense to find the maximum overall width, then figure out how best to accomplish that with WMS, backspacing, and tires.
 
Have you ever actually had an issue with fender coverage?

I run no rear flares, and will soon be moving to my 0” front fenders. I’ve never had any issue with the cops, and I daily drive mine to the downtown Seattle area.

Though aesthetically I prefer the look of 3-4” flares, I can’t afford to smash one on a tree.

I have never had any issues. And while I don't DD my Jeep anymore, I do go on military bases frequently. I know the gate guards have nothing better to do than stop you from getting on base.

I'm sure I could get away with it, but I just don't want to risk it.

I like the plastic flares a little for the aesthetic, but also because they have some give to them on trails, and help keep the cab clean when doors are off.

Toximus has a great 37s LJ build, his thread discusses some build theory. Probably one of the more OP 37s builds out there.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...-octane-a-streetable-adventure-lj-story.9956/

I spent some time looking at this thread a while ago, but I'll have to revisit it. Thanks.

Just not sure about that 60 and my fuel tank.

I did years ago but they seem to have stopped enforcing it lately. Last time I got pulled over it was in my Ram and it was for flares & mudflaps but that was around 2015.

Doesn't mean I totally agree with running no flares.

I see lots of Jeeps in my area that don't follow the mudflad/flare laws. But if it gets enforced, I don't wanna be screwed. And I agree, no flares isn't good either.

State Patrol between Moses Lake & Ritzville


Edit: Every time I've been pulled over it's been by State Patrol. I've never been stopped by a city officer.


Since I don't DD mine I ain't too worried about mud flaps. While many don't like the Metal Cloak look I do for what it offers.
I wish I could find, or was capable of building a true highline flare with removable fenders like Metalcloak.
 
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Just not sure about that 60 and my fuel tank.
If you’re going to pursue a big build like this, I don’t think you should allow a previous decision limit the rest of the build.

I wish I could find, or was capable of building a true highline flare with removable fenders like Metalcloak.
The Metalcloaks can be turned into highlines. Jeep West has done a couple that look okay, not idea on how the clearances are though.
 
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The Metalcloaks can be turned into highlines. Jeep West has done a couple that look okay, not idea on how the clearances are though.
About the same as a stock fender highline since metalcloak fenders don't provide any meaningful increases in clearance. He will see this in Tox's thread where they are compared to GenRight highlines.
 
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About the same as a stock fender highline since metalcloak fenders don't provide any meaningful increases in clearance. He will see this in Tox's thread where they are compared to GenRight highlines.

I had a hunch that was the case, since even if the fender is raised, I imagine the rear wall is limited by MC’s precut opening.
 
I had a hunch that was the case, since even if the fender is raised, I imagine the rear wall is limited by MC’s precut opening.

The fender isn't raised any more than chopping the stock fender sheet metal partially back to the hood line. Any clearance gains are less than an inch depending on many other factors.
 
If you’re going to pursue a big build like this, I don’t think you should allow a previous decision limit the rest of the build.


The Metalcloaks can be turned into highlines. Jeep West has done a couple that look okay, not idea on how the clearances are though.

Normally, I'd agree with just swapping the tank. But if I don't stretch it, then keeping the tank is beneficial. It saved me on Hole in the Rock and White Rim.

About the same as a stock fender highline since metalcloak fenders don't provide any meaningful increases in clearance. He will see this in Tox's thread where they are compared to GenRight highlines.

Yeah, I saw that tread. I love the idea of Metalcloak, but not the truth.