Questions about a newly purchased 5.9 Magnum swapped TJ

[mdurbahn]

Hi,
I just picked up a TJ with a 2001 5.9 Magnum and 46RE from a ram 2500 using the ram pcm and 4.10 gears/35" tire. I am trying to chase down and fix some things that don't seem quite right. The main issue I am running into is when it kicks down into passing gear going up hill it doesn't really go any faster. Just revs up and screams like a banshee but doesn't move much more then before. The shifter is a b&m ratchet shifter but I don't see any button anywhere for an overdrive so I think I need to figure out how to add a overdrive button, not really sure if this could be causing the issue or if there is something else not set up correctly. Anyone have some ideas on what to look for or am I expecting too much out of the 5.9 and this is normal?

 

[hear]

Passing gear = (n - 1) where n is your current gear?

Does it have any issues going through the gears under normal conditions?

 

[mdurbahn]

Passing gear = (n - 1) where n is your current gear?

Does it have any issues going through the gears under normal conditions?

Yea it goes through the gears fine. Passing gear seams to work fine (as you guessed n-1) it just doesn't move any faster. I am just not familiar enough with this drivetrain to know if it's working normal or if I have an issue. Maybe with torque convertor or something like that but not sure how to go about checking to make sure it's working right.

 

[hear]

so it revs/slips any time you kick down, or only from 4->3 or only 3->2?

 

[mdurbahn]

so it revs/slips any time you kick down, or only from 4->3 or only 3->.

Both 4/3 and 4/2. I was maxing out at about 40mph up hill.

 

[hear]

RPMs increasing but no additional speed? Sounds like you're slipping. There's probably not going to be a ton of expertise on that specific transmission, and the fact that it's electronically controlled (hence the E in 46RE) is going to make it harder to troubleshoot.


But the standard basic troubleshooting still applies: check your fluid level, make sure you use the correct ATF type, and also checking the condition of the fluid, especially if it actually has been slipping.

 

[jjvw]

The Jeep is severely under geared if my research into the 46re gear ratios is accurate.

First gear: 2.74:1
Second gear: 1.54:1
Third gear: 1:1
Fourth gear: 0.69:1
Reverse gear: 2.21:1

You have .69 OD just like the 42rle does. 4.10 isn't enough. Assuming Dana 30/Dana 44 axles, you need 5.13 to push 35" tires.

 

[Wildman]

Hi,
I just picked up a TJ with a 2001 5.9 Magnum and 46RE from a ram 2500 using the ram pcm and 4.10 gears/35" tire. I am trying to chase down and fix some things that don't seem quite right. The main issue I am running into is when it kicks down into passing gear going up hill it doesn't really go any faster. Just revs up and screams like a banshee but doesn't move much more then before. The shifter is a b&m ratchet shifter but I don't see any button anywhere for an overdrive so I think I need to figure out how to add a overdrive button, not really sure if this could be causing the issue or if there is something else not set up correctly. Anyone have some ideas on what to look for or am I expecting too much out of the 5.9 and this is normal?

First you need to make sure that you have the TV cable adjusted properly. It's the cable that comes off the rear of your throttle body and goes down to your transmission. It is what replaced your kick down linkage of the 727 style transmission.

You can add a O'D switch. It's not hard to do. I'll get the pinouts for you. First what would be happening when you're accelerating is that the torque converter should unlock and you should see about a 200 RPM jump. Then when it kicks down your should be accelerating faster.
You need to hook up a code reader and make sure you aren't throwing any codes for the transmission.



On your PCM on the firewall you come off C3 plug pin # 13. It take a momentary grounding of the wire to turn O/D on & off.

 

[Wildman]

I had a 5.2 & 44RE in my TJ first and then bought a 5.9 core engine and rebuilt it and had a 46RE built also. Then ended up getting a stroker kit so I traded short blocks with the guy. So I now have a 6.7 (408) V-8 in my TJ. It's torn down waiting for the heads to get fixed right now.

 

[Wildman]

This is a long thread but it is all about swapping the Dodge Magnum V-8 into our TJ's so it might help you figure out some of the work done to your rig.

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/wrangler-magnum-v8-discussion.1365878/

 

[hear]

First you need to make sure that you have the TV cable adjusted properly. It's the cable that comes off the rear of your throttle body and goes down to your transmission. It is what replaced your kick down linkage of the 727 style transmission.

You can add a O'D switch. It's not hard to do. I'll get the pinouts for you. First what would be happening when you're accelerating is that the torque converter should unlock and you should see about a 200 RPM jump. Then when it kicks down your should be accelerating faster.
You need to hook up a code reader and make sure you aren't throwing any codes for the transmission.



On your PCM on the firewall you come off C3 plug pin # 13. It take a momentary grounding of the wire to turn O/D on & off.

View attachment 492391

I have to know, is that for some vehicle that you happen to know also uses a 46RE, and you happened to have it on hand, or do you have ALL of them or what?

 

[Wildman]

I have to know, is that for some vehicle that you happen to know also uses a 46RE, and you happened to have it on hand, or do you have ALL of them or what?

My 97 TJ has the Dodge Magnum swap done on it. I started with a 5.2 & 44RE and then picked up a 5.9 core and rebuilt it. When I was almost ready to swap it into my Jeep I met a guy who had a stroker 5.9 who wanted to trade for a stock 5.9. So we did. I had a 46RE built by one of the west coast tranny guru's.
So I have a 5.9 in my TJ now but it's got a stroker kit making it a 6.7 (408). Had issues with the valve springs binding so my heads are at the machine shop waiting for the correct springs.

I did my first V-8 swap on it in 2006. So I've had one for a while and have tried to be as knowledgeable as I can about them. I have the Ram FSM for a few different years.

 

[Wildman]

Some things to look at on your engine:
1) Spark Knock
2) Oil Consumption
3) Spark Plug Wire Routing

These TSB's might help.

Even with 4.10 gears it should still be able to get up to speed and run down the road. The V-8 isn't a replacement for improper gearing but it does give you a little more wiggle room. If you're staying with 35" tires I'd look at 4.56 or 4.88 gears. Stock in a Ram truck it was turning around 2100-2200 RPM at 70 MPH. While I like to be higher in the power band that is how it was stock. I have 5.13 gears and started out on 35" tires but then switched to 38" tires.

 

[hear]

@Wildman so are all the 4xRE/4xRH in the same case? Meaning that the lengths are the same, so they’re candidates to go behind a 4.0L?

I don’t have any grand ideas, just been poking on the whole idea of what transmission parts interchange w/o too much pain.

Sorry for the mini hijack. This is good stuff.

 

[Wildman]

@Wildman so are all the 4xRE/4xRH in the same case? Meaning that the lengths are the same, so they’re candidates to go behind a 4.0L?

I don’t have any grand ideas, just been poking on the whole idea of what transmission parts interchange w/o too much pain.

Sorry for the mini hijack. This is good stuff.

46RH is longer than the 46RE. If I remember correctly it's 2-3" longer. And the bellhousing bolt pattern is different for the V-8 so without an adapter you couldn't bolt one up to a 4.0.
The 44RE is the lighter duty version and was used in Grand Cherokees & Durangos and I think some Dakotas if they had the 5.2 V-8. The ones with the 5.9 all came with the 46RE and both were in service from 1995-2003. The 46RH was used from 1990-1998. The 44RE was used from 1989-2004.

Edit: BTW the correct gear ratios for your 46RE are:

1st: 2.45

2nd: 1.45

3rd: 1.00

4th: 0.69

Rev: 2.20

 

[mdurbahn]

First you need to make sure that you have the TV cable adjusted properly. It's the cable that comes off the rear of your throttle body and goes down to your transmission. It is what replaced your kick down linkage of the 727 style transmission.

You can add a O'D switch. It's not hard to do. I'll get the pinouts for you. First what would be happening when you're accelerating is that the torque converter should unlock and you should see about a 200 RPM jump. Then when it kicks down your should be accelerating faster.
You need to hook up a code reader and make sure you aren't throwing any codes for the transmission.



On your PCM on the firewall you come off C3 plug pin # 13. It take a momentary grounding of the wire to turn O/D on & off.

View attachment 492391

Thanks that is helpful! I think I have some bigger issue than I initially thought. I can only get it up to about 40mph going up hill. On the normal highway it's great 70mph+ no problem. I will hook up a good scanner and see if I can find any transmission codes but no cel now. Fluid smells good and looks good.

 

[mdurbahn]

Some things to look at on your engine:
1) Spark Knock
2) Oil Consumption
3) Spark Plug Wire Routing

These TSB's might help.

Even with 4.10 gears it should still be able to get up to speed and run down the road. The V-8 isn't a replacement for improper gearing but it does give you a little more wiggle room. If you're staying with 35" tires I'd look at 4.56 or 4.88 gears. Stock in a Ram truck it was turning around 2100-2200 RPM at 70 MPH. While I like to be higher in the power band that is how it was stock. I have 5.13 gears and started out on 35" tires but then switched to 38" tires.

Thanks I will check these TSB's too!

 

[Wildman]

Thanks that is helpful! I think I have some bigger issue than I initially thought. I can only get it up to about 40mph going up hill. On the normal highway it's great 70mph+ no problem. I will hook up a good scanner and see if I can find any transmission codes but no cel now. Fluid smells good and looks good.

Yes you shouldn't have issues going up hills so I'd for sure be looking elsewhere. If you're going 70 MPH when you start up the hill does it bog down and lose speed? For an example I have a 97 Ram 1500 with a 5.2 and was towing a TJ that my daughter had bought and I could maintain 60-65 MPH up hills unless they were really steep.

Thanks I will check these TSB's too!

The oil consumption TSB is about the plenum gaskets which can cause a lack of power and might be a part of your problem.

 

[Wildman]

@Wildman so are all the 4xRE/4xRH in the same case? Meaning that the lengths are the same, so they’re candidates to go behind a 4.0L?

I don’t have any grand ideas, just been poking on the whole idea of what transmission parts interchange w/o too much pain.

Sorry for the mini hijack. This is good stuff.

A little added information is that the 44RE & 46RE that is installed in the Grand Cherokee has the starter on the passenger side of the engine where the Dodge versions have the starter on the drivers side. This can make a difference in clearance for control arms or exhaust depending on what your setup is.

For those who choose to do their own shifting you need the bellhousing from a 92-97 Dodge Dakota V-6. The AX15 or NV3550 will bolt up to that bellhousing. The other option is to use the NV3500 out of a Ram 1500 which has close to the same gear ratio as the NV3550. All manual bellhousings have the starter on the drivers side.

 

[mdurbahn]

Thanks I will check these TSB's too!

Wildman - I found the plug wiring from the TSB was off and I had some historic misfire codes so I am putting in new wires, plugs, cap, and rotor for a full tune up and re-routing. I also do not like the fan they used on this one, what have you used on yours for a fan/shroud?​