Used the spring guide but still don’t know my lift (thoughts?)

[Gibson125t]

did a search and found a threat with spring heights to lift height guide. So... best that i could measure... my front spring is about 15" WITH the spacer. The spacer seems to be a 1.75" spacer. So.. I'm at 13.25? Maybe just 13? Maybe 13.5? It's hard to tell. I can't measure to the springs lowest point. As the lowest point isn't on the outside by the tire. But on the inside. So where I can measure.. there is half a rotation of the coil going further down it seams (am I making sense?) The rear is also hard to measure. The rear is easier to measure from the top and bottom brackets (name?) that hold the spring. They have a lip on them so it's not a perfect measure of the spring. But that gap is 10". I can verify no body lift. But I can't really pin down my suspension lift overall. The chart when searching has 13 (before spacer) at 1" lift for the front. 14 for 2". So.. maybe its a 2" and im missing a whole inch when i measure? Because if it's 1" lift... then.. that's 2.75" total. And that seems like it can't be. It's running 33x12.5 tires. No rubbing. no wheel spacers. dont know the wheels backspacing though. I absolutely cannot tell what has been done lift wise. I can see it's lifted. I can see the spacer. I can see Rusty's lower control arms... and that's all I can tell. Anyone else able to decipher? Got any better guesses? I'm going to need shocks after the holidays sometime. And so it would be great to know what else has been done to better decide what else I may want to do myself before getting shocks. (For example... I don't care for spacers. But I probably need that extra height. Can I just get larger springs? Or is it just not that simple? PO didnt even do the lift. I think it was the PO before him. PO was under the impression it was a 4.5" lift. But I doubted that just from seeing it (though.. I don't call my self an expert. Obviously). i only feel more confused. not less. lol.

while I assume changes in vehicle weight effects the spring heights. I am guessing it takes a lot of weight to get a decent change in the spring height. these measurements where taken with nothing in the jeep. and the only thing added to the jeep with extra weight is the RC front bumper and and winch. and I dont know this for sure at all. but I would wager this would make an imperceivable difference in the spring height (like... MM's...maybe CM's... im just guessing far less then 1/8 inch difference... but im just guessing)

for clarification. this isnt a "what shock size do i need" post. if I where to leave the lift alone, I can detirmin the shock length needed (measure shocks on jeep. find shock close to that when half extended, etc). what I am trying to do is determine what I may want to do to the lift, before deciding on shock replacements. while this isnt the way I would have done the lift myself.... because its already on there... I am seeing if I can just make use of whats there with minor changes... or if I want to start over and save for an entire lift kit... thats the more expensive option. so I want to see about 3 things basically...

1. keep the same everything. just get socks and call it a day.
2. keep same lift height... but change any parts needed so that the spacer isnt there (again... is it as simple as just getting springs that have the appropriate height to equal what I know have between the spring and the spacer combined?)
3. replace parts needed to go ahead and get a bigger lift (and then... what parts... everything needed in a lift kit or.... do I potentially already have the needed parts from the current lift so that a larger lift doesnt need everything in a kit.. and thus making a lift kit leaving me with redundant parts)

the last time I installed a lift myself was getting close to 20 years ago. everything since then as already had a lift on it... or.... I took it to a shop and had them to it (back when this was a more affordable option for me). and since I dont remember jack about the 1 time i did install one... 20 years ago... its safe to assume I have a sever lack of knowledge here and whats going on.. certainly when it comes to figure out whats been done already to this jeep. its one thing to replace parts sent to you in a kit. its another to have knowledge on whats going on and spot stock vs aftermarket and knowing offhand what parts are needed when lifting at various heights... etc.

I have looked at many many threads on this.... which really just left me with more questions (for example... how is it I seem to be measuring less then 3" lift... when the many threads I have found seem to all agree 4" or more are needed for these 33x12.5 tires. yet with no spacers.. no aftermarket or cut fenders... my jeep has no rubbing or any VISABLE issues running this tire size? other then feeling like new shocks may be in order soon... it drives pretty well honestly. so i dont suspect any funny business really.

 

[jjvw]

@tworley, can you please work your magic here?

 

[JMT]

@tworley, can you please work your magic here?

Yes, we need the strike-through function so we can get to the bottom line. I’m exhausted.

did a search and found a threat with spring heights to lift height guide. So... best that i could measure... my front spring is about 15" WITH the spacer. The spacer seems to be a 1.75" spacer. So.. I'm at 13.25? Maybe just 13? Maybe 13.5? It's hard to tell. I can't measure to the springs lowest point. As the lowest point isn't on the outside by the tire. But on the inside. So where I can measure.. there is half a rotation of the coil going further down it seams (am I making sense?) The rear is also hard to measure. The rear is easier to measure from the top and bottom brackets (name?) that hold the spring. They have a lip on them so it's not a perfect measure of the spring. But that gap is 10". I can verify no body lift. But I can't really pin down my suspension lift overall. The chart when searching has 13 (before spacer) at 1" lift for the front. 14 for 2". So.. maybe its a 2" and im missing a whole inch when i measure? Because if it's 1" lift... then.. that's 2.75" total. And that seems like it can't be. It's running 33x12.5 tires. No rubbing. no wheel spacers. dont know the wheels backspacing though. I absolutely cannot tell what has been done lift wise. I can see it's lifted. I can see the spacer. I can see Rusty's lower control arms... and that's all I can tell. Anyone else able to decipher? Got any better guesses? I'm going to need shocks after the holidays sometime. And so it would be great to know what else has been done to better decide what else I may want to do myself before getting shocks. (For example... I don't care for spacers. But I probably need that extra height. Can I just get larger springs? Or is it just not that simple? PO didnt even do the lift. I think it was the PO before him. PO was under the impression it was a 4.5" lift. But I doubted that just from seeing it (though.. I don't call my self an expert. Obviously). i only feel more confused. not less. lol.

while I assume changes in vehicle weight effects the spring heights. I am guessing it takes a lot of weight to get a decent change in the spring height. these measurements where taken with nothing in the jeep. and the only thing added to the jeep with extra weight is the RC front bumper and and winch. and I dont know this for sure at all. but I would wager this would make an imperceivable difference in the spring height (like... MM's...maybe CM's... im just guessing far less then 1/8 inch difference... but im just guessing)

for clarification. this isnt a "what shock size do i need" post. if I where to leave the lift alone, I can detirmin the shock length needed (measure shocks on jeep. find shock close to that when half extended, etc). what I am trying to do is determine what I may want to do to the lift, before deciding on shock replacements. while this isnt the way I would have done the lift myself.... because its already on there... I am seeing if I can just make use of whats there with minor changes... or if I want to start over and save for an entire lift kit... thats the more expensive option. so I want to see about 3 things basically...

1. keep the same everything. just get socks and call it a day.
2. keep same lift height... but change any parts needed so that the spacer isnt there (again... is it as simple as just getting springs that have the appropriate height to equal what I know have between the spring and the spacer combined?)
3. replace parts needed to go ahead and get a bigger lift (and then... what parts... everything needed in a lift kit or.... do I potentially already have the needed parts from the current lift so that a larger lift doesnt need everything in a kit.. and thus making a lift kit leaving me with redundant parts)

the last time I installed a lift myself was getting close to 20 years ago. everything since then as already had a lift on it... or.... I took it to a shop and had them to it (back when this was a more affordable option for me). and since I dont remember jack about the 1 time i did install one... 20 years ago... its safe to assume I have a sever lack of knowledge here and whats going on.. certainly when it comes to figure out whats been done already to this jeep. its one thing to replace parts sent to you in a kit. its another to have knowledge on whats going on and spot stock vs aftermarket and knowing offhand what parts are needed when lifting at various heights... etc.

I have looked at many many threads on this.... which really just left me with more questions (for example... how is it I seem to be measuring less then 3" lift... when the many threads I have found seem to all agree 4" or more are needed for these 33x12.5 tires. yet with no spacers.. no aftermarket or cut fenders... my jeep has no rubbing or any VISABLE issues running this tire size? other then feeling like new shocks may be in order soon... it drives pretty well honestly. so i dont suspect any funny business really.

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Do your best with the measurements. Yes, the lower lip of the perch is there, but you can figure that out.

At the top perch there is a coil spring isolator. It’s a rubber piece that is 3/4” thick. Do not include that in your spring measurement for determining the amount of suspension lift.

Do measure the spring + any other spacer (which you have on the front). In the front, stock is 12”, so anything over that is your front suspension lift (e.g. 15”-12” =3”). Don’t overthink it or worry about being 1/8” off. Rear stock is 8”. Do the same math.

Spacers are not bad. They just add what you need to get to your desired lift height because there is not always a spring that will do that.

It’s not as easy as just changing the springs to get desired lift height because you have to know your sprung weight on each corner and the spring rate of the coil to be able to know how much lift the spring will give your Jeep.

 

[tworley]

@tworley, can you please work your magic here?

Something sorta kinda like this...

did a search and found a threat with spring heights to lift height guide. So... best that i could measure... my front spring is about 15" WITH the spacer. The spacer seems to be a 1.75" spacer. So.. I'm at 13.25? Maybe just 13? Maybe 13.5? It's hard to tell. I can't measure to the springs lowest point. As the lowest point isn't on the outside by the tire. But on the inside. So where I can measure.. there is half a rotation of the coil going further down it seams (am I making sense?) The rear is also hard to measure. The rear is easier to measure from the top and bottom brackets (name?) that hold the spring. They have a lip on them so it's not a perfect measure of the spring. But that gap is 10". I can verify no body lift. But I can't really pin down my suspension lift overall. The chart when searching has 13 (before spacer) at 1" lift for the front. 14 for 2". So.. maybe its a 2" and im missing a whole inch when i measure? Because if it's 1" lift... then.. that's 2.75" total. And that seems like it can't be. It's running 33x12.5 tires. No rubbing. no wheel spacers. dont know the wheels backspacing though. I absolutely cannot tell what has been done lift wise. I can see it's lifted. I can see the spacer. I can see Rusty's lower control arms... and that's all I can tell. Anyone else able to decipher? Got any better guesses? I'm going to need shocks after the holidays sometime. And so it would be great to know what else has been done to better decide what else I may want to do myself before getting shocks. (For example... I don't care for spacers. But I probably need that extra height. Can I just get larger springs? Or is it just not that simple? PO didnt even do the lift. I think it was the PO before him. PO was under the impression it was a 4.5" lift. But I doubted that just from seeing it (though.. I don't call my self an expert. Obviously). i only feel more confused. not less. lol.

while I assume changes in vehicle weight effects the spring heights. I am guessing it takes a lot of weight to get a decent change in the spring height. these measurements where taken with nothing in the jeep. and the only thing added to the jeep with extra weight is the RC front bumper and and winch. and I dont know this for sure at all. but I would wager this would make an imperceivable difference in the spring height (like... MM's...maybe CM's... im just guessing far less then 1/8 inch difference... but im just guessing)

for clarification. this isnt a "what shock size do i need" post. if I where to leave the lift alone, I can detirmin the shock length needed (measure shocks on jeep. find shock close to that when half extended, etc). what I am trying to do is determine what my lift height before deciding on shock replacements. while this isnt the way I would have done the lift myself.... because its already on there... I am seeing if I can just make use of whats there with minor changes... or if I want to start over and save for an entire lift kit... thats the more expensive option. so I want to see about 3 things basically...

1. keep the same everything. just get socks and call it a day.
2. keep same lift height... but change any parts needed so that the spacer isnt there (again... is it as simple as just getting springs that have the appropriate height to equal what I know have between the spring and the spacer combined?)
3. replace parts needed to go ahead and get a bigger lift (and then... what parts... everything needed in a lift kit or.... do I potentially already have the needed parts from the current lift so that a larger lift doesnt need everything in a kit.. and thus making a lift kit leaving me with redundant parts)

 

[Woodrow]

did a search and found a threat with spring heights to lift height guide. So... best that i could measure... my front spring is about 15" WITH the spacer. The spacer seems to be a 1.75" spacer. So.. I'm at 13.25? Maybe just 13? Maybe 13.5? It's hard to tell. I can't measure to the springs lowest point. As the lowest point isn't on the outside by the tire. But on the inside. So where I can measure.. there is half a rotation of the coil going further down it seams (am I making sense?) The rear is also hard to measure. The rear is easier to measure from the top and bottom brackets (name?) that hold the spring. They have a lip on them so it's not a perfect measure of the spring. But that gap is 10". I can verify no body lift. But I can't really pin down my suspension lift overall. The chart when searching has 13 (before spacer) at 1" lift for the front. 14 for 2". So.. maybe its a 2" and im missing a whole inch when i measure? Because if it's 1" lift... then.. that's 2.75" total. And that seems like it can't be. It's running 33x12.5 tires. No rubbing. no wheel spacers. dont know the wheels backspacing though. I absolutely cannot tell what has been done lift wise. I can see it's lifted. I can see the spacer. I can see Rusty's lower control arms... and that's all I can tell. Anyone else able to decipher? Got any better guesses? I'm going to need shocks after the holidays sometime. And so it would be great to know what else has been done to better decide what else I may want to do myself before getting shocks. (For example... I don't care for spacers. But I probably need that extra height. Can I just get larger springs? Or is it just not that simple? PO didnt even do the lift. I think it was the PO before him. PO was under the impression it was a 4.5" lift. But I doubted that just from seeing it (though.. I don't call my self an expert. Obviously). i only feel more confused. not less. lol.

while I assume changes in vehicle weight effects the spring heights. I am guessing it takes a lot of weight to get a decent change in the spring height. these measurements where taken with nothing in the jeep. and the only thing added to the jeep with extra weight is the RC front bumper and and winch. and I dont know this for sure at all. but I would wager this would make an imperceivable difference in the spring height (like... MM's...maybe CM's... im just guessing far less then 1/8 inch difference... but im just guessing)

for clarification. this isnt a "what shock size do i need" post. if I where to leave the lift alone, I can detirmin the shock length needed (measure shocks on jeep. find shock close to that when half extended, etc). what I am trying to do is determine what I may want to do to the lift, before deciding on shock replacements. while this isnt the way I would have done the lift myself.... because its already on there... I am seeing if I can just make use of whats there with minor changes... or if I want to start over and save for an entire lift kit... thats the more expensive option. so I want to see about 3 things basically...

1. keep the same everything. just get socks and call it a day.
2. keep same lift height... but change any parts needed so that the spacer isnt there (again... is it as simple as just getting springs that have the appropriate height to equal what I know have between the spring and the spacer combined?)
3. replace parts needed to go ahead and get a bigger lift (and then... what parts... everything needed in a lift kit or.... do I potentially already have the needed parts from the current lift so that a larger lift doesnt need everything in a kit.. and thus making a lift kit leaving me with redundant parts)

the last time I installed a lift myself was getting close to 20 years ago. everything since then as already had a lift on it... or.... I took it to a shop and had them to it (back when this was a more affordable option for me). and since I dont remember jack about the 1 time i did install one... 20 years ago... its safe to assume I have a sever lack of knowledge here and whats going on.. certainly when it comes to figure out whats been done already to this jeep. its one thing to replace parts sent to you in a kit. its another to have knowledge on whats going on and spot stock vs aftermarket and knowing offhand what parts are needed when lifting at various heights... etc.

I have looked at many many threads on this.... which really just left me with more questions (for example... how is it I seem to be measuring less then 3" lift... when the many threads I have found seem to all agree 4" or more are needed for these 33x12.5 tires. yet with no spacers.. no aftermarket or cut fenders... my jeep has no rubbing or any VISABLE issues running this tire size? other then feeling like new shocks may be in order soon... it drives pretty well honestly. so i dont suspect any funny business really.

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This is a complicated topic, but figuring out your current lift isn't.

Short answer: it looks like you have about 2" of spring lift all around plus .75" of spacer lift in the front (2 instead of the normal one 3/4" isolators) .

Like @JMT said, spacers aren't bad and that second isolator may have been added because of the front bumper which looks heavy. If you are happy with ride height and tire clearance, etc, then no need to get anything except shocks if needed. Just getting new shocks is easy, right? Not really.

You want the shock to have about half of its shaft showing at ride height. That will allow the other half to be exposed at full droop. Full stuff (and this is this complicated part) should be limited by your bump stops just at or before full shock compression. To really assess this, you need to pull your springs and cycle the suspension (up and down at each corner including full R&L lock evaluation in the front). This allows you to set your up travel to prevent significant interference with bump stop adjustment. Once you have that figured out, you can pick a shock matching your measured parameters at full bump and full droop. Doing this well is obviously time consuming. Also note that the above is necessarily backwards. Most would say pick your shock first and build around that.

EDIT: If you don't have tire to body or chassis interference now and you don't plan to change where or how you drive, then you can obviously replace the shocks with what you have.

There is a good sticky on shock specs here: (https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/tj-shock-spring-specification-resource-thread.47846/).

 

[Gibson125t]

sorry it was lengthy. thank you for your assistance. I did not mean to annoy. apologies.

 

[JMT]

sorry it was lengthy. thank you for your assistance. I did not mean to annoy. apologies.

It’s kind of a joke around here. We just try to siphon out the important stuff. No worries!

 

[jjvw]

It’s kind of a joke around here. We just try to siphon out the important stuff. No worries!

This is true. We do it all the time!

 

[Gibson125t]

It’s kind of a joke around here. We just try to siphon out the important stuff. No worries!

the moment I give just the important stuff.... I'll be asked for more details or be referred to threads I have already read. lol. there is no right way I dont think to make a forum post.

 

[Woodrow]

the moment I give just the important stuff.... I'll be asked for more details or be referred to threads I have already read. lol. there is no right way I dont think to make a forum post.

You’re fine. Were we helpful at all?

 

[jjvw]

the moment I give just the important stuff.... I'll be asked for more details or be referred to threads I have already read. lol. there is no right way I dont think to make a forum post.

This is true. We do it all the time!

 

[Gibson125t]

You’re fine. Were we helpful at all?

I would say yes. I was unaware that I had.. effectively 2 spacers. I didnt even notice when I was looking but can see it now in the photos. (refering to the stock spacer with the aftermarket spacer). I just I guess made an assumption it was 1 large spacer. so that was a learning moment. additionally... it seems that I was maybe being too critical of my own measurments and causing my own... confusion.

so where I was told it was 4.5.. its actually more like 2.75.

which... does seem to inform me that the many many posts I seen saying 4" minimum for this tire size was.... lets call it misleading. I now assume there was an unspoken "preference". or maybe... "to still allow good travel" instead of the usual "will it rub" i'm used to with other vehicles when this question is asked. but I now know that... I should probably consider going with a new lift given that I am currently not matching that 4" lift minimum suggestion. and do want to take this off-road/mudding from time to time just as I did with my previous daily. (this jeep is a replacement for my 89 bronco that was crushed by a tree during a recent hurricane).

 

[Woodrow]

I would say yes. I was unaware that I had.. effectively 2 spacers. I didnt even notice when I was looking but can see it now in the photos. (refering to the stock spacer with the aftermarket spacer). I just I guess made an assumption it was 1 large spacer. so that was a learning moment. additionally... it seems that I was maybe being too critical of my own measurments and causing my own... confusion.

so where I was told it was 4.5.. its actually more like 2.75.

which... does seem to inform me that the many many posts I seen saying 4" minimum for this tire size was.... lets call it misleading. I now assume there was an unspoken "preference". or maybe... "to still allow good travel" instead of the usual "will it rub" i'm used to with other vehicles when this question is asked. but I now know that... I should probably consider going with a new lift given that I am currently not matching that 4" lift minimum suggestion. and do want to take this off-road/mudding from time to time just as I did with my previous daily. (this jeep is a replacement for my 89 bronco that was crushed by a tree during a recent hurricane).

I think 4” for 33s is pretty accurate for achieving most of the possible articulation without other significant mods. My TJ is on what are supposed to be 3” springs, but in reality I’m getting 4+” of lift out of them because it’s reasonably light (I mentioned this because ride height can vary a bit depending upon your set up). When I was on 33s, that mostly allowed me full articulation while sitting in the middle of 9” travel shocks, but it was close. Now, on 35s with the same suspension and a 1.25” body lift, things are even tighter and I’ll sometimes get some rub at max flex. I’m out west and love rocks. In dirt, sand and snow, I don’t have any tire/body issues. You might not notice this in FL mud either with a little less than the rec 4” lift. If that’s true, don’t go higher as it just creates other issues (e.g drive line-I notice you already have a T-case drop).

 

[LONGJP2]

sorry it was lengthy. thank you for your assistance. I did not mean to annoy. apologies.

No worries.
You should think about how you plan to use the vehicle.
For example, getting rid of the transfer case drop (for more clearance) will require more mods.