Brake pedal feels "soft" after black magic brakes installation

[psrivats]

I had my mechanic install the black magic brake + centric rotors + new calipers today in my '05 TJR. Just picked up the Jeep this afternoon and the brake pedal feels really loose compared to the previous setup I had (and the pads were pretty worn!). I did the break in procedure as explained in the instructions. I was not hoping for a dramatic change overnight with the new pads and rotors but really was not expecting the brake pedal to feel so loose. The Jeep stops like before and I know it takes time for the pads to settle in, but what needs to be changed to make the brake pedal feel stiffer?

 

[bobthetj03]

What do you mean by "loose"? Is the brake pedal spongy?

 

[psrivats]

What do you mean by "loose"? Is the brake pedal spongy?

Yes. That's what I meant. It feels softer to push than before. The said they bled the lines but perhaps not all the air is out?

 

[bobthetj03]

Yes. That's what I meant. It feels softer to push than before. The said they bled the lines but perhaps not all the air is out?

Exactly! They didn't bleed them sufficiently. Follow the break in procedure to the letter and give them a few hundred miles to break in. Get the air out of the system first.

 

[psrivats]

Exactly! They didn't bleed them sufficiently. Follow the break in procedure to the letter and give them a few hundred miles to break in. Get the air out of the system first.

Argh, I figured that was the case. I will take it back tomorrow and have them bleed it fully.

 

[jjvw]

My first thought is also that the brakes need to be bled.

 

[bobthetj03]

Yep, they need to make it right. Don't let them tell you that is normal for new brakes. You could gravity bleed them yourself if you have some patience and flat ground to park the jeep.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

It's very possible you had an idiot installer who cluelessly reversed the calipers so they are mounted on the wrong sides. That places the caliper's bleed valve under the caliper's brake line connection which then makes it impossible to properly bleed the brake lines. That leaves air in the brakes lines which causes spongy feeling weak brakes.

 

[jchadscud]

I had the same install done BM pads, rotors and calipers and the pedal was properly stiff after install.

If you aren’t expecting a dramatic change, you’ll be surprised. The stopping power is a big difference.

 

[psrivats]

Yep, they need to make it right. Don't let them tell you that is normal for new brakes. You could gravity bleed them yourself if you have some patience and flat ground to park the jeep.

Oh i am taking it back tomorrow for sure. My older worn out pads and rotors felt stiffer, this is no way done right.

It's very possible you had an idiot installer who cluelessly reversed the calipers so they are mounted on the wrong sides. That places the caliper's bleed valve under the caliper's brake line connection which then makes it impossible to properly bleed the brake lines. That leaves air in the brakes lines which causes spongy feeling weak brakes.

Thank you @Jerry Bransford. I will specifically ask them to check the location of the bleed valve in relation to the brake line. I suspect this is what has happened.

 

[Stockli]

You can bleed it it’s easy.
It sucks that shops don’t do good work these days

 

[Jerry Bransford]

This is a photo from my Black Magic brake kit installation which shows the correct position of everything. The wrench is on the bleed valve located above the brake line as it must be. That hose descending down to the bottle is only there during the bleeding process.

 

[ac_]

It makes me sad that they did not test drive the car. If they truly are not bled right, they would have found that on the test drive and could have fixed it before delivery! I know mistakes happen, but that is why we test drive people!

 

[Stockli]

Could be that your drums are not adjusted properly too.

If they are not adjusted out far enough the pedal will have lots of travel and he brake may feel mushy a little

 

[psrivats]

This is a photo from my Black Magic brake kit installation which shows the correct position of everything. The wrench is on the bleed valve located above the brake line as it must be. That hose descending down to the bottle is only there during the bleeding process.
View attachment 47673

@Jerry Bransford I'm going to print this picture and take it tomorrow. Thank you so very much.

 

[psrivats]

You can bleed it it’s easy.
It sucks that shops don’t do good work these days

These guys are usually good. This is the 1st time thetvet messed up. I've been taking my Mazda to them for 7 years and they've been very good overall.

 

[psrivats]

Could be that your drums are not adjusted properly too.

If they are not adjusted out far enough the pedal will have lots of travel and he brake may feel mushy a little

I have front and rear disk brakes on my TJR. I strongly suspect they did not install calipers properly in the manner Jerry described.

 

[Stockli]

I have front and rear disk brakes on my TJR. I strongly suspect they did not install calipers properly in the manner Jerry described.

Ah didn’t see it was a a Ruby.

Still seems crappy that a shop would not understand how a brake system works. Hopefully they fix it quick for you, good luck.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Just a simple bad bleeding procedure could also cause this problem. Let's just hope the installing shop figures out what's wrong. I'm definitely no brake expert but I've installed two of these kits without problem.

 

[psrivats]

@Jerry Bransford you were spot on with your diagnosis. They had installed the calipers switched and the bleeder valve was below the brake line. I showed your picture and the tech went "yep, I got it wrong". They are bleeding the lines now after switching the calipers.

@Chris can we get Jerry's photo added to the how-to section (if it's already not there somewhere)?