Do springs and shocks need to be matched to perform properly?

whitrzac said:
The OME 'heavy' rear spring is listed at 160lbs/in
They are one of the few that make springs in multiple rates for vehicles. Most are a generic somewhere close that works well.
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The OME "heavy" is 160lb; 14.96" free; 2.59" lift (on mine).
 
In similar discussions, it has been suggested that one remove the shocks, go for a drive with these various spring options, and report back as to which ones are softer and stiffer.
 
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Try the Rancho 3 1/2 spring. Part number RS6417B. I'm trying to find the specs on it now but I lost them.
 
mrblaine said:
If it helps at all, when we set a rig up with coil overs, we use the springs to set ride height. That is it, just to put the vehicle at the height we have determined is optimal for the shock travel. We don't care if the rate is 100 pounds per inch combined or 200 pounds per inch combined as long as we get the free length we want with the correct amount of shaft showing that we are after. Once the height is determined, then we go after the tune. At no point do we work any aspect of the tune around spring rate because for the small variance is combined rates at given heights, it simply doesn't matter.
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But you are able to custom tune them. I am thinking more about someone who doesn't have the finances to get a custom tune. So they have to pick their springs (for the height and load they want) then find an off the shelf shock that is most closely tuned to the setup they have.
 
jjvw said:
This is a key point. For a given lift height, the available rates between our options aren't that different from each other. One of the wider ranges for a 4" is between Currie and Rubicon Express. Even then, the story is that they don't feel very different when and if the setup is otherwise comparable.
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I just swapped out some RE springs for Currie. I agree, there is no real noticeable difference in ride. Might be a slight change but very well could be placebo effect too.
Comparing rancho to a remote resi shock is apples to oranges. Especially if it had any custom valving in it.
 
jjvw said:
In similar discussions, it has been suggested that one remove the shocks, go for a drive with these various spring options, and report back as to which ones are softer and stiffer.
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I have seen this suggestion multiple times and I am having a hard time understanding what would be the outcome of this particular test. Is it even safe to drive around without shocks? Honest question.
 
Fargo said:
So I am just trying to get some discussion going.
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This discussion has been had like 20 times since I’ve been on this forum. It always ends the same.

You and Dirk at DPG would get along great. Just about everybody else is on the other side; shocks and tire pressure control ride quality.
 
Fargo said:
But you are able to custom tune them. I am thinking more about someone who doesn't have the finances to get a custom tune. So they have to pick their springs (for the height and load they want) then find an off the shelf shock that is most closely tuned to the setup they have.
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I'll give it a shot. If you are trying to tune by mixing and matching both different coils and different off the shelf shocks, then you will also be introducing changes to the bumps stop requirements as well as changing the shock travel biases. Eventually you will find a nice combination, but how do you know which of the changing variables landed you where you are?

If we can agree that the coils are the least significant variable, then keep it simple and do what Blaine does and let the coil set the ride height (and spring travels if that is of concern).
 
I'm confused? Are y'all agreeing that springs are springs? Are the Rough Country springs that the previous owner installed as good as Currie's. My RC springs give me 4" lift just like Currie's.

This thread https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/who-sells-the-best-springs-for-a-4-inch-lift.19918/ asks the OP if he needs length or load capacity. People talk about how long Currie springs free length. They have to have a lower rate.


whitrzac said:
Yes, shocks need to be matched to the springs. However, most springs I've seen for the TJ are a similar rate, there's nothing way stiffer or softer than anything else out there.
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What is this based on? Do you have data?

jjvw said:
The OME "heavy" is 160lb; 14.96" free; 2.59" lift (on mine).
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What is the rate of the standard spring?
 
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psrivats said:
I have seen this suggestion multiple times and I am having a hard time understanding what would be the outcome of this particular test. Is it even safe to drive around without shocks? Honest question.
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I did this on a samurai I built. No it was not safe. If I remember correctly, there was a 150lb difference between the springs I tested. It became very clear that both were more than capable of a extremely soft ride, the only difference was in ride height. It felt like I was driving one of these.
92985
 
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mrblaine said:
Go tune a few shocks, we'll have this discussion again and we'll see if you still feel the same.
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Yes, when you add that factor. The OP, of course, is arguing that pairing the right springs with shocks is very important for determining ride quality. I think the rest of us disagree with him.
 
Brianj5600 said:
I'm confused? Are y'all agreeing that springs are springs? Are the Rough Country springs that the previous owner installed as good as Currie's. My RC springs give me 4" lift just like Currie's.

This thread https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/who-sells-the-best-springs-for-a-4-inch-lift.19918/ asks the OP if he needs length or load capacity. People talk about how long Currie springs free length. They have to have a lower rate.




What is this based on? Do you have data?



What is the rate of the standard spring?
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One reason for using Currie springs is the amount of available travel. Compressed vs extended length.
 
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mrblaine said:
Alright, you win, I'm out.
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Yeah, I win... Seriously though, did I miss it? I'm really trying to learn something here and not just argue.

I don't understand how the rate of the spring doesn't affect the valving of the shock. In your coil over example, can you change out the springs with stiffer or softer springs that give you the same ride height and not have to retune the shock. Surely the shock doesn't work with any springs that produce the same ride height regardless of weight. What am I missing?
 
A cheap Jeep is going to ride cheap. No way around that and no point discussing how to make it ride better. If cheap always wins, the cheapest option is to keep what you have.


psrivats said:
Is it even safe to drive around without shocks?
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Yes, around your yard. I wouldn't suggest going fast or on public roads. It's very educational to do since you'll establish a baseline for what shocks control.
 
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Gollywomper said:
One reason for using Currie springs is the amount of available travel. Compressed vs extended length.
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Yeah, the main thing you are wanting to accomplish with your springs is a specific ride height with the longest spring possible, meaning a lighter spring rate relative to other springs that accomplish the same ride height.

Then you choose a shock that will give you the most uptravel.
 
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