Adjustable control arm length

Chris

Administrator
Staff Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
71,212
Location
Gillette, WY
Okay, so we know that the stock control arms on a TJ are fixed length.

Why is it that with adjustable control arms I hear people saying that they don't always need to be the same length from side-to-side? If the stock ones are a fixed length why wouldn't adjustable ones each need to be set to the same length on each side?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grey_Machine7.3
Also, as far as caster goes. You need between 4.5-8°. So, a small variation in your floor doesnt matter. The higher angles drive better and feel solid on the hwy. The other equation in the mix is the pinion angle which will restrict you to 6° caster with a 4" on the lp44 rubi axle.

Your control arm lengths will be roughly 16 1/4" and 15" up front. Rear will be roughly 15 7/8" lower and near 14" uppers.

The Upper ball joint works in general as a good place to measure the caster angle from.

Use the measurements i gave you or the measurements the kit states to use as a starting point.
 
Thanks Dave! That makes sense to me. Though it still confuses me a bit... If the frackers are never perfect enough to have exact length uppers, why are the factory uppers exact length?
 
Also, as far as caster goes.


ANNNND here you have the origin of my usename :D

Castor Troy was the character in face-off.....Caster was what I was constantly asking about on 67-72chevytrucks.com when I swapped an front clip form a 71 chevy truck with disc brakes onto my 1962 street truck build back in 96. So my Username was changed by the Admin from just "Troy" to CasterTroy

troybanner4.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
Thanks Dave! That makes sense to me. Though it still confuses me a bit... If the frackers are never perfect enough to have exact length uppers, why are the factory uppers exact length?

Because the mounts on the front axle are differently constructed from side to side. The driver's side is cast into the pumpkin and never changes and can't be moved. The one on the passenger side is a formed unreinforced sheet metal tower with a lot of give in it and as the vehicle is used, that mount can easily be altered from the factory specs. If you look at one that has been used hard, it is very common to see the tangent of the two bends on the front side move closer together due to a slight collapsing of the mount as it was pushed forward.

The reason that the lowers vary little in length is because the mounts are more robust and tend to resist deformity a fair bit better. Regardless of the reasons, the only thing that matters is that you wind up with similar pre-load on the arms at ride height.

If you've spent anytime on Jeep boards, there are always the pet solutions for getting the bolts into the stock arms like jacking up one side, ratchet strapping one side back or forward, etc.. If the mounts were in the same spot, those solutions would never be mentioned because the bolts would just slide in when you got one side lined up. There is also the issue of slightly triangulated uppers and lowers as they came from the factory. If the axle is not perfectly centered with the frame level side to side, the triangulation dictates that no two arms can be the exact length. With the lowers pointed slightly outward at the front axle, as the axle shifts from to the side, one arm straightens out and the other gets a slight bit more angle which means the distance from the frame mount to the axle mount has changed if you want to keep the axle square.
 
Because the mounts on the front axle are differently constructed from side to side. The driver's side is cast into the pumpkin and never changes and can't be moved. The one on the passenger side is a formed unreinforced sheet metal tower with a lot of give in it and as the vehicle is used, that mount can easily be altered from the factory specs. If you look at one that has been used hard, it is very common to see the tangent of the two bends on the front side move closer together due to a slight collapsing of the mount as it was pushed forward.

The reason that the lowers vary little in length is because the mounts are more robust and tend to resist deformity a fair bit better. Regardless of the reasons, the only thing that matters is that you wind up with similar pre-load on the arms at ride height.

If you've spent anytime on Jeep boards, there are always the pet solutions for getting the bolts into the stock arms like jacking up one side, ratchet strapping one side back or forward, etc.. If the mounts were in the same spot, those solutions would never be mentioned because the bolts would just slide in when you got one side lined up. There is also the issue of slightly triangulated uppers and lowers as they came from the factory. If the axle is not perfectly centered with the frame level side to side, the triangulation dictates that no two arms can be the exact length. With the lowers pointed slightly outward at the front axle, as the axle shifts from to the side, one arm straightens out and the other gets a slight bit more angle which means the distance from the frame mount to the axle mount has changed if you want to keep the axle square.

This makes sense. I'm overthinking the whole thing again as I tend to do sometimes.

One question I have is when speaking with Tom Wood about setting the rear pinion angle (to install my new Tom Wood driveshaft) he was mentioning that if the slope of the rear driveshaft is for example 15°, the pinion should be set between 12° and 15°. With 13° or 14° being ideal.

Why not just set the rear pinion angle to the same slope as the rear driveshaft (15° in this case)? What's with the slight difference in in the pinion slope?
 
OK, I know this thread is very old but I am looking for the factory control arms lengths (hole to hole) for all four control arms. I've found a chart but I believe it is only for front control arms...

1543963366300.png
 
I've done this enough times now to know that control arm lengths are irrelevant in terms of trying to set them based off some chart.

You need to get them on the vehicle and get the axles centered where they need to be, as well as the pinion angle and such. Those charts are 100% worthless IMHO.

This is something that I didn't fully understand until I did it a few times. Now I totally get why it's useless information.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjvw
I've done this enough times now to know that control arm lengths are irrelevant in terms of trying to set them based off some chart.

You need to get them on the vehicle and get the axles centered where they need to be, as well as the pinion angle and such. Those charts are 100% worthless IMHO.

This is something that I didn't fully understand until I did it a few times. Now I totally get why it's useless information.

Hi Chris, please go read my thread here to understand why I ask. Any input you have would be appreciated.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/suspension-and-caster-question.16171/#post-262047

BTW... I have the bent JKS control arms. Shouldn't the bend be pointed upward or downward?



1543964376329.png


1543964410251.png


1543964439376.png
 
OK, I know this thread is very old but I am looking for the factory control arms lengths (hole to hole) for all four control arms. I've found a chart but I believe it is only for front control arms...

View attachment 66380
Does that chart factor in the varying bump stop lengths we might find at a given lift height? What about any differences in transfer case heights and pinion angles?
 
Hi Chris, please go read my thread here to understand why I ask. Any input you have would be appreciated.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/suspension-and-caster-question.16171/#post-262047

BTW... I have the bent JKS control arms. Shouldn't the bend be pointed upward or downward?



View attachment 66381

View attachment 66382

View attachment 66383

Well the bend IMHO should be facing up, but the decals seem to suggest you have them facing the correct way, unless someone put them on upside down.

You need to call JKS and ask them about this to find out for 100% certain. You're the first person I've ever seen who actually has this lift, so information from their support department would be ideal.
 
Okay, so we know that the stock control arms on a TJ are fixed length.

Why is it that with adjustable control arms I hear people saying that they don't always need to be the same length from side-to-side? If the stock ones are a fixed length why wouldn't adjustable ones each need to be set to the same length on each side?
I'll try again. I know last post didnt load and why. 😉 Find it this way. Maybe.

Screenshot_20200510-214511_Chrome.jpg
 
My bad. Sorry, meant to toss it out there for recent poster. I'm an idiot.
 
My bad. Sorry, meant to toss it out there for recent poster. I'm an idiot.

Haha, no worries at all, I understand it happens!

I honestly don't even remember posting that, but then I realized that's when I bought my first TJ (after coming from an XJ), and I had lots of questions and confusion.

While I'm not an expert like Blaine or some of these guys, I know way more than I did back then.

Makes me laugh now when I read lift kit instructions and they specify lengths for the control arms :LOL:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Flair
You definitely know your stuff didnt mean to offend.

On the control arms I think a lot of times people spend a bunch on something that they think it supposed to bolt right in not quite understanding all of the variables that are involved and want a definitive answer that varies from vehicle to vehicle and setup to setup.
 
Oh, I wasn't offended one bit.

I just looked at the date and realized how old this was :LOL:

Yes, too many times people focus on the numbers and other stuff when in stalling control arms. Even the Currie instructions specific numbers for control arm lengths, though I realize now that those numbers are more of a general guideline, not a set number.

In reality all that matters is the axles are centered under the vehicle and none of the control arms are binding. Whatever length that makes them end up, it's irrelevant. In many cases, one side might have slightly longer lengths than the other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Flair