Unbelievable, biodegradable wiring insulation

[Jerry Bransford]

Back in the late 80's the European Manufacturers Association started mandating the use of biodegradable wiring insulation in automobiles. Yep, I researched that and it's true!

My 2004 BMW 330ci had a burned out headlight last year. When I removed the headlight, the wiring leading to the connector was all bare! The insulation had disintegrated and was laying in a pile inside the headlight bucket. I covered the wires as best I could with electrical tape but then knew I was driving a ticking timebomb.

Then my brake lights went on 2-3 weeks ago and they won't shut off. My radio turns on & off when it feels like it, my seatbelt light flashes continuously, and my cruise control light is on all the time now. The button at the end of the turn signal stalk no longer works to change the display from time to temperature, mpg, etc.

So when my brake light went on continually, I figured it was the wiring insulation and research confirmed it. Wiring problems are now common and affecting BMWs, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, and others. Un-friggingbelievable. After lots of googling I found videos and photos of wiring bundles with bare wires everywhere. A few suggested a replacement brake light switch would fix it so out of desperation, I installed a new $60 BMW brake light switch (a back-breaker job) but it didn't help.

So now I'm forced to buy a replacement car. What's funny is all the BMWs I've finding in my search for a low-cost used car. Their resale values are nothing now. I'm confining my search to Japanese and Korean car companies. But then I found that even they switched to some kind of soy based insulation instead of petroleum based insulation. The soy formulation attracts RATS who love to chew soy wiring insulation. In some areas dealers are seeing lots of cars with serious wiring problems caused by rats.

Shit I'm afraid of them all now. My Jeep is no longer daily-driver friendly so it has to be some kind of car but I'm just afraid of them all now. I'm still convinced it has to be a Japanese/Korean. Maybe an American if I can find the right one. Maybe a Jeep but whatever I get it just has to be a small economical car I can zip around in to my various clients during the day.

Frigging unthinking environmentalists.

 

[Tranz Zam]

A lot of cars use that junk wiring now. It also attracts critters, who live to munch on it.

 

[Zorba]

The Europeans also brought us ROHS, the beginning of the world wide anti Pb hysteria - and it *is* hysteria.

 

[qslim]

Here's a super-sweet '86 528e with wires wrapped delicately by Bavarian craftsmen of the most deadly insulation known. Start bidding!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1986-bmw-528e-14/

 

[06lj]

It wasn't just the auto industry that was forced to change. I used to manage kitchens and more than once had to have the wiring on the refrigeration units repaired due to critter damage. The technician showed me the wiring one time and it had been stripped of almost all the insulation.

 

[qslim]

Or actually check that Jerry, this is right up your alley. Just make sure you treat the wheels for termites.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1918-chevrolet-490-roadster/

 

[Zorba]

Nice. Nice, nice, nice, Nice, NICE, NIIIIIIICE! Everything you need, and nothing you don't.

 

[JDS123]

I have 230k on my 4.0. I know of a couple bare wires in my engine bay (the injector plugs being the most worrying). Not sure what I want to do to fix it quite yet besides just a quick electrical tape wrap. Annoying problem.

Sucks about the BMW. There are plenty of super reliable cars you can end up with though. If you want something cheap to zip around in, anything Toyota is going to work and be cheap to fix if it stops working. Might not be as fun as the BMW though.

 

[qslim]

I have 230k on my 4.0. I know of a couple bare wires in my engine bay (the injector plugs being the most worrying). Not sure what I want to do to fix it quite yet besides just a quick electrical tape wrap. Annoying problem.

Sucks about the BMW. There are plenty of super reliable cars you can end up with though. If you want something cheap to zip around in, anything Toyota is going to work and be cheap to fix if it stops working. Might not be as fun as the BMW though.

Lexus as well. The GS series has always bored me to death but unless you're at the enthusiast level they drive just as well as a BMW & last three times as long without major repairs.

 

[Apparition]

And here I always thought BMW drivers were too special to use their turn signals. I guess it’s just bad wiring.

 

[rasband]

And here I always thought BMW drivers were too special to use their turn signals. I guess it’s just bad wiring.

It’s an upgrade few choose.

 

[TJ4Jim]

There are only Car 2 manufacturers that my wife has yet to defeat in the last almost 40 years, Mazda and Honda.
She just got back into a CX3 after recently totalling the Compass (glad it's finally gone). My last company car the Highlander was a trooper bopping all over Manhattan day after day and was retired due to Hurricane Sandy with 275K on it.

 

[rasband]

The soy based wiring insulation is crazy. We used to have a mountain property and our 1977 F150 lived outside for the summers (garaged for the cold winter mornings we needed to plow). No issues beyond old truck stuff. My mom got a Lexus and the first summer there were some chewed wires.

We built a new detached garage.

Good luck with your search! Personally I’d avoid anything Subaru. I’ve owned a few and by 100k there’s head gasket issues among many other headaches along the way.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Lexus as well. The GS series has always bored me to death but unless you're at the enthusiast level they drive just as well as a BMW & last three times as long without major repairs.

A slightly older GS350 is on my short list, my wife has a fairly new GS350 and it's a great car... not that my wife lets me drive it much.

 

[qslim]

A slightly older GS350 is on my short list, my wife has a fairly new GS350 and it's a great car... not that my wife lets me drive it much.

They're great cars Jerry. I was a Lexus MDT for a number of years and rarely saw issues with any of the GS models besides warranty squeaks & rattles. Can't speak for the insulation, but I can tell you I did VERY little troubleshooting with regards for wiring when I worked for Lexus.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Here's the question I forgot to ask.. when the insulation degrades and falls off, that leaves the copper wiring which is decidedly not biodegradable. What is the benefit to biodegradable insulation then if the wiring remains behind? Not to mention the car itself is not biodegradable either, it'll all still be there long after the insulation is gone. Effing stupid.

 

[rasband]

I wonder of the hippie concern is in the manufacturing process footprint? Rarely does the logic add up beyond virtue signaling.

 

[qslim]

Here's the question I forgot to ask.. when the insulation degrades and falls off, that leaves the copper wiring which is decidedly not biodegradable. What is the benefit to biodegradable insulation then if the wiring remains behind?

Wait, are you talking about the actual copper insulation? I thought you were talking about the fabric wrap that bundles the wires.

 

[Tranz Zam]

Here's the question I forgot to ask.. when the insulation degrades and falls off, that leaves the copper wiring which is decidedly not biodegradable. What is the benefit to biodegradable insulation then if the wiring remains behind?

That's a question for the environmental nuts.

lol

 

[Squatch]

Gal at work had her one year old Toyota Highlander not start one day. Had it towed to the dealer. There were a bunch of damaged wires from mice/rats chewing on the soy-based insulation. Said it was a common problem. She traded it in on a brand new one, and placed little jars of peppermint oil with small holes in the lids throughout the engine compartment. Supposedly, rodents and assorted vermin find the odor of mint to be repulsive, and wont remain in the engine bay, as a result. Supposedly...(shrug)