DS18 Sound Bar System
- Thread starter Tristar_tj
- Start date
Holy Cow. You ordered on Thursday and they arrived that quickly. Amazing! Were they shipped from England?
incartec doesn't mess around.. i was amazed when i received mine so quickly!
enjoy the "french sound"
Me too! Got mine today
Here's what I ordered plus the pods and lightly used Amp I snagged from a friend of mine.
I was kinda surprised to see these are paper constructed vs other....
Attachments
If your speaker wire is in good condition then it will be fine. Our Jeeps are 15+ years old and have seen a lot, so your wiring may need a refresher, and there is no better time to do that now. If you rewire you can go two ways, and this is a personal choice you should make.
Regular stuff, which is what I use.
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-49558-NVX-XWS1675.html
A good installer would use stuff of this quality or higher. Maybe not from this place, but you will see the difference. I think you can have this place solder terminals as well.
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm
A couple things that should probably be corrected here:
Pre-outs/RCA's are NOT required to add an amplifier. You simply need to either look for an amplifier that has high-level inputs. In fact, if you google "balanced inputs", which are used to connect high end audio equipment, you'll find that electronically they look just like a speaker-level output.
There is no such thing as anything approaching an audiophile sound experience in a Jeep, or any other convertible, for that matter. You can get high quality audio output from your speakers if you are willing to invest enough money, but the road noise in a vehicle like ours is going to be an issue. This thread has a lot of people with appropriate (low) expectations talking about good sound. Let's call it what most of have for what it really is: A LOUD, but lousy, sound experience that meets our expectations. And there is nothing wrong with that!
The speaker wiring in your car is fine. Even if it is 20 years old, it is fine for what you'll be doing. If you plan on running a 4x1000W amp, then by all means upgrade the speaker wiring. If not, stick with what you have - you'll accomplish nothing from running new wire except a loss of time and money. If, however, you are one of those people that thinks a $500 power cord changes the sound of your music at home, by all means run new speaker wire.
I've not heard of BLAM, so I have no opinion there - the couple folks here seem happy with them, so if they fit (your vehicle and budget), then go with it! What I will say about them is this: Our vehicles are much like a marine environment - things get wet. A paper cone will not last nearly as well as a polypropylene or other non-porous speaker, although you may very well like the sound quality better. On the other hand, they are a 2 ohm unit, so if you use class A/B amps, you'll experience a nice bump in power by using them.
I'm not saying my setup is better, just different - bluntly, I went for ease of installation and known quantities. Polk 5.25 in the dash, Poly 6.5" in the rear pods, Apline 73BT head unit, and the Alpine KTP-445A amp (4x45W). The speakers are marine grade, and the amp mounts inside the dash behind the radio - nothing to steal. Is it the best system? Of course not - I could have easily spent thousands more for a system that would have sounded nearly the same with 90+db wind noise on the highway
Not trying to start a fight - just making sure that some of the early technical points...
I'm very interested to see what you all think about the various subwoofers. I'm at that point myself, and everything is a huge compromise. Our vehicles really need a 12", a 10" might get it done, and an 8" is likely insufficient for most anything. All those powered unit are underpowered for the systems they are being paired with, and really need more like 400-500W RMS to keep up with the volume of the rest of the systems you all (and I) have installed. Mounting depth is an issue, however - ideally I think the JLAudio 10TW3 is probably the best option given the excursion/depth ratio, but they are also ridiculously expensive and would require some sort of custom enclosure...
Doug
Pre-outs/RCA's are NOT required to add an amplifier. You simply need to either look for an amplifier that has high-level inputs. In fact, if you google "balanced inputs", which are used to connect high end audio equipment, you'll find that electronically they look just like a speaker-level output.
There is no such thing as anything approaching an audiophile sound experience in a Jeep, or any other convertible, for that matter. You can get high quality audio output from your speakers if you are willing to invest enough money, but the road noise in a vehicle like ours is going to be an issue. This thread has a lot of people with appropriate (low) expectations talking about good sound. Let's call it what most of have for what it really is: A LOUD, but lousy, sound experience that meets our expectations. And there is nothing wrong with that!
The speaker wiring in your car is fine. Even if it is 20 years old, it is fine for what you'll be doing. If you plan on running a 4x1000W amp, then by all means upgrade the speaker wiring. If not, stick with what you have - you'll accomplish nothing from running new wire except a loss of time and money. If, however, you are one of those people that thinks a $500 power cord changes the sound of your music at home, by all means run new speaker wire.
I've not heard of BLAM, so I have no opinion there - the couple folks here seem happy with them, so if they fit (your vehicle and budget), then go with it! What I will say about them is this: Our vehicles are much like a marine environment - things get wet. A paper cone will not last nearly as well as a polypropylene or other non-porous speaker, although you may very well like the sound quality better. On the other hand, they are a 2 ohm unit, so if you use class A/B amps, you'll experience a nice bump in power by using them.
I'm not saying my setup is better, just different - bluntly, I went for ease of installation and known quantities. Polk 5.25 in the dash, Poly 6.5" in the rear pods, Apline 73BT head unit, and the Alpine KTP-445A amp (4x45W). The speakers are marine grade, and the amp mounts inside the dash behind the radio - nothing to steal. Is it the best system? Of course not - I could have easily spent thousands more for a system that would have sounded nearly the same with 90+db wind noise on the highway
Not trying to start a fight - just making sure that some of the early technical points...
I'm very interested to see what you all think about the various subwoofers. I'm at that point myself, and everything is a huge compromise. Our vehicles really need a 12", a 10" might get it done, and an 8" is likely insufficient for most anything. All those powered unit are underpowered for the systems they are being paired with, and really need more like 400-500W RMS to keep up with the volume of the rest of the systems you all (and I) have installed. Mounting depth is an issue, however - ideally I think the JLAudio 10TW3 is probably the best option given the excursion/depth ratio, but they are also ridiculously expensive and would require some sort of custom enclosure...
Doug
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Thanks man!A couple things that should probably be corrected here:
Pre-outs/RCA's are NOT required to add an amplifier. You simply need to either look for an amplifier that has high-level inputs. In fact, if you google "balanced inputs", which are used to connect high end audio equipment, you'll find that electronically they look just like a speaker-level output.
There is no such thing as anything approaching an audiophile sound experience in a Jeep, or any other convertible, for that matter. You can get high quality audio output from your speakers if you are willing to invest enough money, but the road noise in a vehicle like ours is going to be an issue. This thread has a lot of people with appropriate (low) expectations talking about good sound. Let's call it what most of have for what it really is: A LOUD, but lousy, sound experience that meets our expectations. And there is nothing wrong with that!
The speaker wiring in your car is fine. Even if it is 20 years old, it is fine for what you'll be doing. If you plan on running a 4x1000W amp, then by all means upgrade the speaker wiring. If not, stick with what you have - you'll accomplish nothing from running new wire except a loss of time and money. If, however, you are one of those people that thinks a $500 power cord changes the sound of your music at home, by all means run new speaker wire.
I've not heard of BLAM, so I have no opinion there - the couple folks here seem happy with them, so if they fit (your vehicle and budget), then go with it! What I will say about them is this: Our vehicles are much like a marine environment - things get wet. A paper cone will not last nearly as well as a polypropylene or other non-porous speaker, although you may very well like the sound quality better. On the other hand, they are a 2 ohm unit, so if you use class A/B amps, you'll experience a nice bump in power by using them.
I'm not saying my setup is better, just different - bluntly, I went for ease of installation and known quantities. Polk 5.25 in the dash, Poly 6.5" in the rear pods, Apline 73BT head unit, and the Alpine KTP-445A amp (4x45W). The speakers are marine grade, and the amp mounts inside the dash behind the radio - nothing to steal. Is it the best system? Of course not - I could have easily spent thousands more for a system that would have sounded nearly the same with 90+db wind noise on the highway
Not trying to start a fight - just making sure that some of the early technical points...
I'm very interested to see what you all think about the various subwoofers. I'm at that point myself, and everything is a huge compromise. Our vehicles really need a 12", a 10" might get it done, and an 8" is likely insufficient for most anything. All those powered unit are underpowered for the systems they are being paired with, and really need more like 400-500W RMS to keep up with the volume of the rest of the systems you all (and I) have installed. Mounting depth is an issue, however - ideally I think the JLAudio 10TW3 is probably the best option given the excursion/depth ratio, but they are also ridiculously expensive and would require some sort of custom enclosure...
Doug
Plus, you don't know what all music has been played across those wires the entire time, you may get feedback from the residuals... If you want to get fancy, run 8G, single crystal, cryo stress-relieved, O2 free wires, and use high power insulators (think power line insulators) to keep the wires away from the metal of the vehicle, and other wires. Make sure the fuses you use for all the audio components are rated for audio use, as they have the grain of the metal infused with argon so as not to color the music...
Seriously, you should replace the stock speaker wires, as the factory usually used the same wire for everything in the vehicle. You want to get the resistance of the wire down as low as you can... I would suggest 16-18G wire... any larger (numerically lower than 16) you are at diminishing returns, and could be difficult to run. Smaller diameter, and you 'could' have performance issues.
Make sure it is twisted pair and run it away from all electrical, and only at right angles when you do have to cross electrical to get the best electrical noise rejection.
You made some good points, but also a couple should be updated/addressed as they were directed at a few of us.
No person mentioned that Pre-outs/RCA's are required to add an amplifier, and in fact I sold a few amplifiers on here that fell into that category, including a plug and play amplifier to the stock factory head unit. My current amplifier has high level inputs coming from a Kenwood head unit. This recommended BLAM amplifier also has high level inputs.
I do not think any of us have mentioned that we are getting competition level sound else we would have recommended BLAMs Multix line-up which would cost some tens of thousands of dollars. We are trying to accomplish the best bang for the buck, in different levels. Road noise is not an issue for me, and I also have a Banks exhaust, which is louder than stock.
What I have been saying is at $300 you can do this, at $600 that, at $1k this and $2k is that, Each level will show a vast improvement of quality sound over the former. So while we are not seeking competition level sound, we are achieving audiophile levels without spending crazy dollars. Audiophile, similar to art, is in the ear of the beholder.
In addition to the speakers increasing sound quality, the install plays a role, the source is important, and as an example, my head unit (Kenwood X702) has a spotify app that I cannot use because the Bluetooth app, which has a qualcomm aptx chip, provides so much better sound quality over the spotify app. Little things make the whole, and you can achieve great sound in the Jeep. We are all sharing our experiences and have built some nice set-ups.
Never assume this, especially in a Wrangler. One should check their wiring to ensure nothing has been corroded, or clipped by a former owner who was trying to install RGB lights on an angry bird grill - ya never know in the wrangler. If the wires are in good shape then they are fine to use, I agree with that statement.
A couple things that should probably be corrected here:
I'm not saying my setup is better, just different - bluntly, I went for ease of installation and known quantities. Polk 5.25 in the dash, Poly 6.5" in the rear pods, Apline 73BT head unit, and the Alpine KTP-445A amp (4x45W). The speakers are marine grade, and the amp mounts inside the dash behind the radio - nothing to steal. Is it the best system? Of course not - I could have easily spent thousands more for a system that would have sounded nearly the same with 90+db wind noise on the highway
Not trying to start a fight - just making sure that some of the early technical points...
You have a solid budget build, which is an easy PnP install. If ordered through Crutchfield, they sendss great instructions for anyone to install. The BLAM three-pack is too good of a price to pass on relative to what else is on the market and I would call that the best value play out there.
Relocating the tweeters to the dash was an inexpensive cost and the sound quality substantially improves. A good 2-way component set adds $100 over the cost of those Polks, so for roughly $250 more you can greatly improve your sound. You do not need to spent thousands for a great sounding system, for under a thousand you can have an insanely well sounding system, but for $2k you can get some bells and whistles including a DSP to dial in your system.
You hit the nail on the hear hear. An 8" is more of a mid-woofer/mid range, and I have a Ground Zero 8" shallow-mount in my center console. That helps out a lot, but my bass comes from a box in the back with two 10" subs. I have a quick disconnect so I can easily remove the box in the event I need the rear cargo space, and then the 8" picks up some of the bass that goes missing.
That JL is damn pricey, where would you place that? Finding a location for your sub is going to be the first step, and there is no best place, only what's best for each individual Wrangler owner.
Go back and re-read post #16, on page 1. "His Sony HU only has one pair of 2 volt RCA outputs, so a new head unit will be needed." This isn't right, so I corrected it.
See post #15. "I currently have phenomenal sound with not, so not all say that. Done correctly you can achieve a real good sound quality in the Jeep." along with "I go 70mph with no top and am good. "
At 70 mph we all have ridiculous wind noise. I agree we can get loud enough to be heard, but that isn't what I might call phenomenal except relative to expectations. The statement you just made that "road noise is not an issue" tells me that is likely what you meant, so we're all in agreement.
No argument - I'm not suggesting anything negative about any of the builds as described. They look good, they use quality components, and there is nothing to lead me to believe that the advice around components is anything other than solid. I've merely tried to temper the outcomes that people should expect. At 70mph with the top off you should primarily expect to hear wind noise, with no expectation of drowning out or masking it. You will still be able to hear your stereo if it is loud enough, which all the equipment here is capable of, but we shouldn't confuse that with an enjoyable listening experience.
Agreed - that's true of everything in life. Perhaps I read too much into the "refresher" which implies it might be good to change it out just because it is old.
If it is damaged, replace it. If it isn't, don't.
Budget was exactly what I was shooting for. For $450 I'm fully outfitted from headunit to speakers, and the install took me a combined total of 3 hours. 90 minutes of which was modifying the factory pods to allow for the 6.5" speakers (I don't have the full bar that apparently just accepts them).
I don't know BLAM, so I wasn't knocking them, just observing that they are also a tradeoff - likely improved sound for shortened life. Everyone has their own decision to make, but it helps to give them all the facts they need to know. Paper cone in wet environment is not typically considered a leading practice, so wanted to make sure people understood the implications of their decisions.
Midrange and your tweeter on two entirely different planes pointing in 2 different spaces doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but hey, if you like, that's all that matters...
I'm locked into the center console since I won't give up passenger or cargo space.
I'm most likely going with the Cerwin Vega simply because it is a 10", but I haven't had a chance to check the full specs. As I'm sure you know, bass is all about air movement. An 8" w/ 1" of travel is the same as a 10" w/ 2/3" of travel, so I need to get into the specs. It does, however, sport a higher RMS value than most, and looks to fit right into the console with no modification.
My other car, however, has a Fi Audio 12" w/ 800W, and while I know I won't get that performance in the Jeep, I think I might be able to get close with the JL. But since this is a budget build as you rightfully pointed out earlier, so I need to find one that meets my price point first, and they aren't exactly a popular model that one finds in abundance in the wild...
If I end up with the JL then I'm likely into more of an investment as I expect I'll need to modify the factory box a bit. Haven't even pulled it out yet to look at the console/box combo, so not really sure, but I'd be thinking about a modified console with the sub loaded from the outside (which has challenges since the sub is now exposed).
D-
I was looking at a bad manual and in a follow-up post (# 17) he said the head unit had no RCA preouts. The manual I was looking at, I think said it was two RCA outputs with 2 volts of power, and he was looking at an amp with RCA connections. I go with what people like, I'm not a salesguy, but I see how that could be taken the wrong way.
Your build is solid and as you note adding bass, in a stealth way, is difficult. No inifnite baffle set-ups, no trunk, cargo space limited...and you are left with a shallow mount/slim line woofer. I honestly think the Kicker 6.75" is the way to go, with the correct amplifier. I have an 8", but it's full range, and does not play as low as the Kicker did, which is what I now want with the box in back.
What Cerwin Vega 10" are you speaking of? And which part of Mass are you in?
Well....I got all the goods installed this week. I'm super impressed with these BLAM speakers, especially the front stage now with the 5.25s. I can actually hear music coming from the front. Nice, clear sound which is exactly what I was looking for. The sub isn't nothing to write home about, but it does add a good bit of bass which is nice. Later on, I may upgrade to a Rockford Fosgate P300-10 self powered sub. Thanks again to all for the suggestions!!
So sorry - didn't mean to be rude and ignore your post. I must have missed the notification of your reply.
The Cerwin-Vega (wish they were the brand they used to be!) is this one. Nothing awesome about it other than it appears to be a slightly higher wattage than the others. Probably negligibly so given they are all underpowered, but 200 vs 150 is still 33% more...
I like the concept of the 6.75", but I've got a 12" in my other car, and I just can't see the smaller one being even close to comparable. Although I suppose I'll basically be sitting on it, so it might be okay. $200 is a lot to put into something on the off-chance that it is acceptable. I'll need an amp either way, and that is the other challenge - for that one I'd probably only get a 200-300W amp. For a 10" I'd likely get something in the 500-750W range. Have you heard a 6.75" live and amplified?
I'm down off 495 near Foxboro. Nice quiet little area, but lacks trails. Just off the RI border...
d-
Ha, all good my man...public forums are what they are, no offence taken, I'm a Masshole like yourself but from the better part of the state, the north shore.
The specs on the Cerwin are nice, but as you know, and indicated, those shallow mount subs can only give you so much oomph. Best value deal is what I would look out. Lots of people use Rockville and I just read an article about them getting sued over false wattage claims. Since there is no real standard, I stick to name brands. Kenwood had a good one, the KSC SW11 came with a wiring kit for under $200, if still around.
The Kicker 6.75" does surprisingly quite well when amplified, in our Jeep. When I speak this is all relative to our Jeep, and it's quirks. The Kicker also comes in 1 ohm or 2 ohm so some flexibility when finding an amp. I have an 8" right now, but it's full range, and I need the two 10"s when playing say, Beastie Boys. Other types of music it's not needed, but welcomed.
I have heard the 6.75" live, used to have the Kicker but sold it. It was real good, and for a simple cost effective upgrade I would grab all Kickers, 5.25", 6.5" and 6.75" - grab a five channel amp with one channel as a subwoofer, or 6 channel since the Kicker is a DVC. Most cost effective best value amplifer than can fit.
The Cerwin Vega B55 Bomber is nice, or similar wattage/size amp.
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