Dave Kishpaugh's (Jeep West) geometry correction brackets are now available

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Mine works better with altered geometry. No doubt in my mind.

It’s tough because I’d love to see a similar build with all three options run the exact same obstacle on the same line. The LJ (like mine) changes that too - I’ve had some minor hop but when and where has been different.

Im not a novice, but still new enough to know there’s more I need to put my Jeep through for it to tell me more.
 
Does Dave still offer the midarm? If so, why choose these vs the midarm?

Less than $200 vs $???? I can't justify the cost of mid arms for my Jeep. Right now my Jeep does not do anything odd.

Does high AS, like 4" short arm 200%, contribute to front end lift in a climb?

Does 200% AS have any good characteristics?
 
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Less than $200 vs $???? I can't justify the cost of mid arms for my Jeep. Right now my Jeep does not do anything odd.

Does high AS, like 4" short arm 200%, contribute to front end lift in a climb?

Does 200% AS have any good characteristics?
Squat is the rear of the rig moving down under load. Anti-squat is the opposite, so there is that.
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat, you just got to know why your skinning the cat to begin with.
 
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Lmao y’all are such haters it’s hilarious to see you guys who have done “a few outboards” try to trash a guy who has done literally hundreds of outboards for a profession and has experimented with geometry an incredible amount over the years. Not with a calculator but real world trial and error. What Dave has done is offer a super low cost way to improve a short arm setup. That’s all. $160 to be exact. There’s no doubt if I had infinite money I’d be running a full midarm setup if I could afford it. But something for $160 that uses whatever arms I already have, substantially decreases body roll, improves handling, eliminates rear steer, makes it so I don’t have to trim my wheel well anymore to make room for the tire under articulation, eliminates track bar clearance issues, eliminates bind on Jack stands for easier more accurate cycling, and reduces hopping on climbs. All using my existing arms, that’s a pretty fucking sweet modification for the buck. Is it as good at climbing as the savvy midarm? No. Dave designed it to be an all around improvement for everything and make the rig more enjoyable to drive everywhere. Not necessarily to be the best at one thing. Savvy guys, we aren’t taking anything away from you lmao. Just saying this is a low cost viable option to make the rig drive better in all regards. And until you drive something Dave built then “you don’t know what you don’t know” as everyone seems to be saying lately.
@rasband not to single you out but you can’t really compare the climbing characteristics of an LJ to a TJ. That’s a lot of wheelbase difference.
 
Lmao y’all are such haters it’s hilarious to see you guys who have done “a few outboards” try to trash a guy who has done literally hundreds of outboards for a profession and has experimented with geometry an incredible amount over the years. Not with a calculator but real world trial and error. What Dave has done is offer a super low cost way to improve a short arm setup. That’s all. $160 to be exact. There’s no doubt if I had infinite money I’d be running a full midarm setup if I could afford it. But something for $160 that uses whatever arms I already have, substantially decreases body roll, improves handling, eliminates rear steer, makes it so I don’t have to trim my wheel well anymore to make room for the tire under articulation, eliminates track bar clearance issues, eliminates bind on Jack stands for easier more accurate cycling, and reduces hopping on climbs. All using my existing arms, that’s a pretty fucking sweet modification for the buck. Is it as good at climbing as the savvy midarm? No. Dave designed it to be an all around improvement for everything and make the rig more enjoyable to drive everywhere. Not necessarily to be the best at one thing. Savvy guys, we aren’t taking anything away from you lmao. Just saying this is a low cost viable option to make the rig drive better in all regards. And until you drive something Dave built then “you don’t know what you don’t know” as everyone seems to be saying lately.
@rasband not to single you out but you can’t really compare the climbing characteristics of an LJ to a TJ. That’s a lot of wheelbase difference.
While in Moab there’s a fairly steep optional climb on Hells. I tried it, couldn’t get traction. Moved over a foot and walked right up.

A TJ followed me and tried my exact line, no traction. Moved back over a foot to where I originally tried and walked right up.

We saw a lot of that when wheeling a mixed group. Interesting the slight differences that it makes for significant results.
 
While in Moab there’s a fairly steep optional climb on Hells. I tried it, couldn’t get traction. Moved over a foot and walked right up.

A TJ followed me and tried my exact line, no traction. Moved back over a foot to where I originally tried and walked right up.

We saw a lot of that when wheeling a mixed group. Interesting the slight differences that it makes for significant results.
Yeah I noticed with Moab line was everything and the line wasn’t always clear. Especially since the obstacles were always so wide and rounded. That was foreign to me. Where I wheel it’s very tight and pointy and lines are more obvious.
 
While in Moab there’s a fairly steep optional climb on Hells. I tried it, couldn’t get traction. Moved over a foot and walked right up.

A TJ followed me and tried my exact line, no traction. Moved back over a foot to where I originally tried and walked right up.

We saw a lot of that when wheeling a mixed group. Interesting the slight differences that it makes for significant results.
Yes, I know that climb well. Wheelbase helps a lot. TJ's need to find their spot.
 
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Lmao y’all are such haters it’s hilarious to see you guys who have done “a few outboards” try to trash a guy who has done literally hundreds of outboards for a profession and has experimented with geometry an incredible amount over the years. Not with a calculator but real world trial and error. What Dave has done is offer a super low cost way to improve a short arm setup. That’s all. $160 to be exact. There’s no doubt if I had infinite money I’d be running a full midarm setup if I could afford it. But something for $160 that uses whatever arms I already have, substantially decreases body roll, improves handling, eliminates rear steer, makes it so I don’t have to trim my wheel well anymore to make room for the tire under articulation, eliminates track bar clearance issues, eliminates bind on Jack stands for easier more accurate cycling, and reduces hopping on climbs. All using my existing arms, that’s a pretty fucking sweet modification for the buck. Is it as good at climbing as the savvy midarm? No. Dave designed it to be an all around improvement for everything and make the rig more enjoyable to drive everywhere. Not necessarily to be the best at one thing. Savvy guys, we aren’t taking anything away from you lmao. Just saying this is a low cost viable option to make the rig drive better in all regards. And until you drive something Dave built then “you don’t know what you don’t know” as everyone seems to be saying lately.
@rasband not to single you out but you can’t really compare the climbing characteristics of an LJ to a TJ. That’s a lot of wheelbase difference.
Well said..I have personally driven a jeep that Dave has worked his magic on so this is first hand knowledge not hearsay..It drove very nicely and I was impressed how smooth it was and how well it handled. In the end if you are happy with the jeep and the way it handles/drives/feels then its a win
 
Well said..I have personally driven a jeep that Dave has worked his magic on so this is first hand knowledge not hearsay..It drove very nicely and I was impressed how smooth it was and how well it handled. In the end if you are happy with the jeep and the way it handles/drives/feels then its a win
I can’t even believe the on road handling difference. I’ve lifted a tire gunning it around a corner to beat an oncoming car before. I’ve tried to recreate that with the geo correction and can’t. It stays so planted now, it’s just flat out safer to drive.
 
Nailed it right there except with most you have to show them which one is the cat and which one is the neighbor's pit bull.
And usually that occurs after it's already skinned.
 
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Lmao y’all are such haters it’s hilarious to see you guys who have done “a few outboards” try to trash a guy who has done literally hundreds of outboards for a profession and has experimented with geometry an incredible amount over the years. Not with a calculator but real world trial and error. What Dave has done is offer a super low cost way to improve a short arm setup. That’s all. $160 to be exact. There’s no doubt if I had infinite money I’d be running a full midarm setup if I could afford it. But something for $160 that uses whatever arms I already have, substantially decreases body roll, improves handling, eliminates rear steer, makes it so I don’t have to trim my wheel well anymore to make room for the tire under articulation, eliminates track bar clearance issues, eliminates bind on Jack stands for easier more accurate cycling, and reduces hopping on climbs. All using my existing arms, that’s a pretty fucking sweet modification for the buck. Is it as good at climbing as the savvy midarm? No. Dave designed it to be an all around improvement for everything and make the rig more enjoyable to drive everywhere. Not necessarily to be the best at one thing. Savvy guys, we aren’t taking anything away from you lmao. Just saying this is a low cost viable option to make the rig drive better in all regards. And until you drive something Dave built then “you don’t know what you don’t know” as everyone seems to be saying lately.
@rasband not to single you out but you can’t really compare the climbing characteristics of an LJ to a TJ. That’s a lot of wheelbase difference.
All I know is that if you ain't ridin' on tuned, outboarded 12" Fox shocks, you just ain't ridin'... 🤷‍♂️ :ROFLMAO:
 
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