Are Metalcloak control arms any good?
- Thread starter thekidwithquestions
- Start date
It’s all brand name.
If neither of these joints had a name attached to them and people asked, “Which one is better?”, you’d just tell them the JJ is the better option and they wouldn’t question it one bit.
I actually get it though. People want to feel good about what they bought, and that’s understandable.
I am also certain that for 95% of people the Metalcloak joints are just fine.
No. Flex is determined by shock travel. No one has enough shock travel to max out a JJ or MC.
Correct. The grease zerk doesn't let much of any grease get into the joint.
Yes. About once a year. I don't do it often enough...
...I didn't touch a couple of mine in about 30-40k miles. Pure neglect because I was too lazy to unbolt them. What happened was that the race wore away the preload to the point where I could easily move the dry joint by hand. I replaced the races. Eventually, I suspect the JJ would start to rattle like a worn heim joint, because that's basically what it is.
Any differences in NVH between our various joint and bushing options (save maybe a heim joint, maybe) is completely imperceptible. If you have any doubt about this, ask Metalcloak why they used heim joints in their track bars, when they care so much about mitigating NVH through the control arms. Understand that a track bar is a control arm.
I can do that.
i bought mine because 20% off and free shipping
I'm not so sure about that. Again, I've seen the axle wrap from MC bushings. That can easily turn into driveshaft vibes from the rising pinion. Especially on the highway at higher speeds. This excessively moving pinion makes it really difficult to set the pinion angles. And I've also seen front end shudders and a general wallowiness that disappeared after a switch to JJs from MC.
We all know how easy it is to dismiss and excuse these things as a Jeep thing. And most don't know any better.
So, I ask again, why is recommending the lesser product acceptable?
I appreciate the gentle touch
So the amount of flex is a non issue since the shocks would be the limiting factor.
Lets say for arguments sake that the MC joints should be inspected on a yearly basis as well. If someone know's of an official maintenance interval for the joint's feel free to chime in.
Should the MC joint be neglected, it'll start to tear like we've seen people post pictures of I'm assuming. And with the tearing It would start to have excess movement? Maybe some noise?
vibration is out then, since we couldn't feel a difference even if there was one.
So, they both seem to be good. I suppose the issue is that some are seeing the MC joint failing too early?
EDIT: I typed too slow, don't be afraid to go on without me!
This is a new one for me, I haven't ever heard this before. Is this just the flexing of the bonded rubber? Is it something that older joints are more prone to?
This is the second time I've seen you refer to axle wrap on the highway from the MC joints. Now, I know axle wrap is a real thing, but in my automotive experiences, axle wrap was initiated with dumping the clutch, getting more traction than you anticipated, and/or from having a torque monster engine that is generally hard on the rear suspension when you stomp the go-pedal. None of these things is typically associated with a TJ cruising on the highway. Perhaps when climbing rocks, and you get a good piece of traction? I'll buy that, I guess. But "on the highway"?
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I appreciate the gentle touch
So the amount of flex is a non issue since the shocks would be the limiting factor.
Lets say for arguments sake that the MC joints should be inspected on a yearly basis as well. If someone know's of an official maintenance interval for the joint's feel free to chime in.
Should the MC joint be neglected, it'll start to tear like we've seen people post pictures of I'm assuming. And with the tearing It would start to have excess movement? Maybe some noise?
vibration is out then, since we couldn't feel a difference even if there was one.
So, they both seem to be good. I suppose the issue is that some are seeing the MC joint failing too early?
EDIT: I typed too slow, don't be afraid to go on without me!
This is a new one for me, I haven't ever heard this before. Is this just the flexing of the bonded rubber? Is it something that older joints are more prone to?
Metalcloak bushings are not preloaded like the JJ is. If neglected, I expect it to feel loose in the housing earlier than a JJ. It can't be any other way. The reason this wouldn't be reported very often is because it takes a whole bunch of wear before anything becomes noticeable from the driver's seat.
The tearing occurs from misalignment. The greater and more frequent the misalignment, the sooner the MC is going to tear due to the stretching of the bonded rubber on the ball. This can't happen on a JJ because it is a variation of a heim joint. It simply moves to where it needs to go. There is no return to a neutral state.
The preload on the JJ is also what seals the ball from contamination. And yes, I'm aware of the reports of mud drying out the grease. I trust this can happen. And I avoid mud as much as possible because mud eats moving parts. There is no way Metalcloak is immune to this since it too has parts that slide against other parts. But they do this without a compatible seal to the JJ.
Big tires on a 4000lb brick traveling at highway speeds results in a lot of resistance and force being directed at the rear axle. Squishy bushings are going to squish save allow things to move around. I've witnessed it where it was controllable between the throttle and coasting. And I witnessed the same thing happen to that rig during steep rock climbs and even several hard take off in a parking lot. The loaded rear axle would audibly click the driveshaft.This is the second time I've seen you refer to axle wrap on the highway from the MC joints. Now, I know axle wrap is a real thing, but in my automotive experiences, axle wrap was initiated with dropping the clutch, getting more traction than you anticipated, and/or from having a torque monster engine that is generally hard on the rear suspension when you stomp the go-pedal. None of these things is typically associated with a TJ cruising on the highway. Perhaps when climbing rocks, and you get a good piece of traction? I'll buy that, I guess. But "on the highway"?
The MC bushings were worn out. But one needs to acknowledge that we are only talking about the degree of severity. This was a growing problem for a long time.
Okay. I can accept that. Thank you for explaining it.
Computer has slowed way down again (it's a nightly occurrence), and it's hard to even post a response when it's like this, so I gotta bail from the conversation for tonight. However, I do look forward to returning tomorrow and finding many, many more posts on the subject. Until then...
So on identical rigs, the JJ should last longer by design because it isn't stretching anything and just goes where it's needed, as you said. And the only advantage MC joint might have would be in a frequently muddy environment?
I wonder then, on a jeep that had closer to factory (8-9") range of movement, that because the joints aren't being stretched as harshly, if they would require less maintenance than a JJ?
Also, I appreciate the exchange
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Like @Squatch , I don't really have a dog in this yet, but from the weighed in comments by MANY of the MC control arm owners, I submit this as an answer to your incessant question, @jjvw , of why would anyone buy MC over Johnny Joint control arm bushings .
Not one person in this 11 thread has said MC has superior joints however, many people have run MC joints on and off road for apparently extremely long periods of time with little to no maintenance suffering no ill affect in the process (yes some have torn them, they are not indestructible). You have admitted that without regular maintenance the Johnny Joints suffer an early demise and require replacing of parts to bring them back from the abyss. Regular maintenance being described by most as completely disassembling the joint and greasing it internally since the zerk fittings are, (as previously commented on) purely for looks and marketing. In summation, some people are willing to spend money on (in your mind a lesser product) because there is less maintenance involved in running them for long periods of time on rigs that are daily driven and not purpose built to pound the living shit out of on the rocks...
Hopefully that answers your question...
Not one person in this 11 thread has said MC has superior joints however, many people have run MC joints on and off road for apparently extremely long periods of time with little to no maintenance suffering no ill affect in the process (yes some have torn them, they are not indestructible). You have admitted that without regular maintenance the Johnny Joints suffer an early demise and require replacing of parts to bring them back from the abyss. Regular maintenance being described by most as completely disassembling the joint and greasing it internally since the zerk fittings are, (as previously commented on) purely for looks and marketing. In summation, some people are willing to spend money on (in your mind a lesser product) because there is less maintenance involved in running them for long periods of time on rigs that are daily driven and not purpose built to pound the living shit out of on the rocks...
Hopefully that answers your question...
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Ballistic joints are preloaded as are Rubicon Express Super Flex, Krawler Joints, and TeraFlex Joints are those better too?
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Now you sound like Joe Biden peddling vaccines
