Seized driveshaft

eastbloc said:
A sealed boot is the way to go in my opinion, my original front ds slides in and out just as smooth as aftermarket at this point.

You are also correct about a more aggressive maintenance with Adams, and here is my take on it:
Splip yoke on their ds has 2 holes, 1 for grease zerk and other acts as a breather hole through which all contamination suppose to escape. Problem is that grease will be escaping out of there as well as all the crap will be getting in. In theory it is a good design that cleans itself out, AS LONG AS there is plenty of grease in there, it will come out and push all the crap out with it.

So the question is, what is the maintenance interval? I have thought about it and came to a realization that it does not matter, because design is flawed. How can i assure that there will always be grease around the splines? Have plenty of grease in there and restrict its flow only through the top. Physics are physics, spin liquid in a sealed cylinder around its central axis and it will evenly distribute around the walls, give it room to escape and it will.

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Upper portion is sealed, bottom has a hole, so we have what we have.
I was maintaining my ds but obviously not often enough, or maybe not properly enough.
What if debris already got into the tube and i put more grease in there through zerk, would it not push debris into splines?

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in 2018 when i got that ds, i wrote to them to ask if that 2nd hole is intentionally left open there, because it was spewing grease during driving. They respond, i quote:



My interpretation of that broken middle school level of English is that it works as intended.
Their maintenance instruction only states to put grease in through the zerk.
https://www.adamsdriveshaftoffroad.com/maintenance-grease-information/

So that is my view on it just from lubricating standpoint. There is also a possibility of issues with balance and improperly cut splines as evident by chewed up spline ends in my previous photos, because the deeper i push spline stub into slip yoke, more resistance it encounters and consequently seizing up beyond my physical ability to separate it. Until i get a bore scope in there, this will be left to speculations.
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Well I wire brushed the coating off, greased it up, and put it back together. There is some up/down and rotational play now but it isn't as much as I thought it would be. I have some more work to do before I can get it on the Jeep and test drive it but I'll report back with results. Figure this happens enough with Adams that if this is a potential solution (if only a temporary one) it may be worth knowing.

When you have it apart and are playing with grease it becomes pretty clear that what @eastbloc was saying above is the case. The grease just stays down there and gets pushed out the end instead of actually greasing the splines. As constructed the shaft would need to be taken out, greased, and put back in periodically to have any hope of keeping it well lubricated. Unless of course the grease works its way up the splines when the shaft is rotating rapidly - I'm not sure about that. I don't see why that would be the case but I don't know.
 
I found out mine was siezed when I tried to take it out for my 4.88 regear. I'm pretty sure it was responsible for toasting a lot of the bearings in the 35...

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Mobusaki said:
Well I wire brushed the coating off, greased it up, and put it back together. There is some up/down and rotational play now but it isn't as much as I thought it would be. I have some more work to do before I can get it on the Jeep and test drive it but I'll report back with results. Figure this happens enough with Adams that if this is a potential solution (if only a temporary one) it may be worth knowing.
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The coating on the splines of the slip yoke is called Glidecote. Its machined onto the splines and helps reduce vibrations and ensure a tight fit. When it gets damaged or peels off, it can cause the slip joint to seize. If you wire wheeled it off, expect vibrations when you test drive due to the fact that the driveshaft spins even in 2wd on the wranglers (unless you have lockouts). Running the driveshaft this way will lead to premature wear on other drivetrain components and unfortunately, the only way to repair it is with a new slip yoke or driveshaft.

I had a stock front driveshaft fail in this fashion. I pulled it apart and tried to clean up the Glidecoat and removed some of it so I could get the shaft back together in it’s original orientation. I packed it with lots of grease and at first it seemed fine, but when I got to cruising speed the vibrations were very bad. Ended up with a replacement shaft and everything was good.
 
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Lax22 said:
The coating on the splines of the slip yoke is called Glidecote. Its machined onto the splines and helps reduce vibrations and ensure a tight fit. When it gets damaged or peels off, it can cause the slip joint to seize. If you wire wheeled it off, expect vibrations when you test drive due to the fact that the driveshaft spins even in 2wd on the wranglers (unless you have lockouts). Running the driveshaft this way will lead to premature wear on other drivetrain components and unfortunately, the only way to repair it is with a new slip yoke or driveshaft.

I had a stock front driveshaft fail in this fashion. I pulled it apart and tried to clean up the Glidecoat and removed some of it so I could get the shaft back together in it’s original orientation. I packed it with lots of grease and at first it seemed fine, but when I got to cruising speed the vibrations were very bad. Ended up with a replacement shaft and everything was good.
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The shaft that was seized and which I took the coating off is the rear driveshaft - so going by what you say I will definitely need to replace it ASAP. The front has play in it (much more than the rear even with the coating removed) but the coating is intact. I suppose I should replace it as well. There's no vibration from it, even in 4x4 hi, but both pinion seals leak and I wonder if the shafts caused it. The seals are relatively new (regear at same time I got rear shaft, 2017, ~17k miles ago I believe).

I might as well see this "experiment" through and put this stripped rear shaft back on and drive it while I wait for new shaft(s). It may be only one drive but I'm curious and more than that, I want to drive my dang Jeep. 😒
 
Mobusaki said:
The shaft that was seized and which I took the coating off is the rear driveshaft - so going by what you say I will definitely need to replace it ASAP. The front has play in it (much more than the rear even with the coating removed) but the coating is intact. I suppose I should replace it as well. There's no vibration from it, even in 4x4 hi, but both pinion seals leak and I wonder if the shafts caused it. The seals are relatively new (regear at same time I got rear shaft, 2017, ~17k miles ago I believe).

I might as well see this "experiment" through and put this stripped rear shaft back on and drive it while I wait for new shaft(s). It may be only one drive but I'm curious and more than that, I want to drive my dang Jeep. 😒
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It won’t be the end of the world driving it while waiting on a new shaft.
 
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rasband said:
I got rid of a vibe getting a new front DS.
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Yeah I've heard that happen often. The suggestion to drive with just one driveshaft installed is a good one because you can easily be fooled as to which one is causing vibrations. In my case it's odd that the front isn't causing any given the amount of play. I should replace it before it becomes a problem. Sigh. Went from needing one to two new driveshafts. But better to know and save up now than be ignorant and find out the hard way.

Anyway, back to seized driveshafts for a moment. I thought I would outline a couple important things I learned so far:

Protect the Glidecoat on the splines
Do not use heat. The blue coating is extremely sensitive to heat and is easily damaged. I heated mine up enough to warm up the grease and cause some to come out, thinking maybe it was vacuum locked from too much grease. It was too hot to hold my hand on for a length of time, but not too hot to touch for a short time. It still melted the coating.

On getting the shaft off the Jeep
You probably won't be able to get it off the Jeep since it won't compress at all. Using too much leverage between the axle-side u-joint and the differential yoke is a bad idea because you could damage the exposed pinion threads, and because you are putting all that leverage on the transmission mount and could damage it. If the driveshaft is just stiff, not seized, this method should be fine. If it is truly seized, just remove the rear u-joint.

On freeing it up
From reading around and from my own experience having tried various methods (leverage, winching, hammer), what seems to work most often for most people is a BFH and persistence. Don't do this with it on the Jeep, put it in a vice. Soak it with penetrating fluid and don't give up. Do not bend the yoke ears. You have to hit it at the base of the yoke where it meets the shaft. It's pretty obvious and easy but I imagine a wild swing could still bend an ear if you're not careful. Alternate between hitting it on one side of the yoke, then the other.

Maybe don't even bother 😅
Another takeaway is that it seems this is all usually a waste of time. It seems most of the time if it is seized, even when you get it apart, clean it, grease it, and put it back together...it is seized again then and there.
 
Mobusaki said:
That's good to hear. It is topless season, after all! I've spent too much of it under the Jeep instead of in the Jeep already. 😆
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This yr has been good and bad (fun parts :)). A bunch of time building, new engine, axles, gears... BLAH BLAH. Next weekend is the first wheeling weekend. Adams shaft better come in Monday so I can stay up late after work breaking in the gears before Friday. Seems like you need to hit the trails too lol.
 
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Morks said:
This yr has been good and bad (fun parts :)). A bunch of time building, new engine, axles, gears... BLAH BLAH. Next weekend is the first wheeling weekend. Adams shaft better come in Monday so I can stay up late after work breaking in the gears before Friday. Seems like you need to hit the trails too lol.
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Ah that's all good stuff at least. :) Hopefully you get it ready in time for next weekend! It is no fun missing the first trip after doing a ton of work and being so close - been there. Yeah, I definitely need to hit the trails too.

I have it all back together now. I had the SYE apart due to a loose tone ring. So once that gasket sets and I top off the fluid... moment of truth on that rear shaft.
 
Put mine of the press today, came apart with out too much trouble, cleaned it up in the solvent tank. Splines and glidcote look real good so I’ll coat the splines with some grease and put it back together tomorrow and call it good

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Went on a test drive today. Everything feels fine with the coating stripped off the driveshaft, exactly the same as before. I was fully expecting some bad vibrations but I'm happy to say that didn't happen. I went up to 70mph. I'm rarely on the highway so between that and the low miles I put on I think I should be good to go for a while if I choose. Pretty happy to have saved myself a pretty penny for now. :)
 
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Seized shaft causes the crush collar on the Dana 35 to fail
Mumblewood said:
Put mine of the press today, came apart with out too much trouble, cleaned it up in the solvent tank. Splines and glidcote look real good so I’ll coat the splines with some grease and put it back together tomorrow and call it good

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Was the welch plug missing?
 
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Blackjack said:
Seized shaft causes the crush collar on the Dana 35 to fail


Was the welch plug missing?
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That's worrisome. I didn't think about that but it makes sense. I have an 8.8 but from my memory of the parts list when I had it regeared a crush sleeve was used (why do that when there's a better alternative?!). Hopefully I caught it in time and everything is OK back there...

I'm not sure what a welch plug is. I did a search and it seems like it may be a plug in the back of the shaft to keep grease from escaping? If that's the case the Adams allows grease to escape from there, seemingly by design (see comment #65 in this thread).
 
Mobusaki said:
That's worrisome. I didn't think about that but it makes sense. I have an 8.8 but from my memory of the parts list when I had it regeared a crush sleeve was used (why do that when there's a better alternative?!). Hopefully I caught it in time and everything is OK back there...

I'm not sure what a welch plug is. I did a search and it seems like it may be a plug in the back of the shaft to keep grease from escaping? If that's the case the Adams allows grease to escape from there, seemingly by design (see comment #65 in this thread).
Click to expand...

Yeah 8.8 comes from the factory with a crush collar. There are kits out there to eliminate them that I use when I do gear work on them both to make the pinion preload more consistent over time and allow for field service of the yoke and seal without worry of messing up the preload.

Yes the welch plug is the cap on the yoke end of the slip yoke. For non booted shafts it has a small hole that allows both a small amount of air movement so the slip is not hydraulically locked and migration of grease over time as you service it. For booted shafts it should be solid as the boot deals with the air movement. If that plug is missing there is no way to keep contamination out of the splines.

welchplug.jpg
 
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Blackjack said:
Yeah 8.8 comes from the factory with a crush collar. There are kits out there to eliminate them that I use when I do gear work on them both to make the pinion preload more consistent over time and allow for field service of the yoke and seal without worry of messing up the preload.

Yes the welch plug is the cap on the yoke end of the slip yoke. For non booted shafts it has a small hole that allows both a small amount of air movement so the slip is not hydraulically locked and migration of grease over time as you service it. For booted shafts it should be solid as the boot deals with the air movement. If that plug is missing there is no way to keep contamination out of the splines.

View attachment 336608
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Good explanation, thanks! I see what it is now. I also see that you were talking to Mumblewood 😅

As for the crush sleeve, yeah, it seems best to eliminate it when given the chance. Not sure why my professional gear installer didn't. I need to replace the pinion seal in my 8.8 so hopefully I don't mess it up. Going to mark the nut and yoke as it is now and try to line them back up after and hope for the best.
 
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