Which adjustable track bar?

I've had no issues with my metal cloak bar either. Ihaven't seen very many complaints either, and also nobody with problems ever says why there was a problem. Badly balanced tires, bad bushings on control arms, etc can all be hard on any joint. I think the problem with the frame side mount is the way jeep has the mount oriented vertically, it limits the type of end that can be used. It needs to be able to pivot quite a bit, a horizontal mount like the jk uses can have the duroflex bushing, but the vertical mount would require a horizontal adapter, which brings up my question, how does the Currie bar mount frame side? You guys have me all worried about my m/c bar!
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jjvw said:
A straight bar, regardless of the lift would hit the diff and also not clear the the lower mount. A track bar needs bends to get around all the stuff down there.
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Wasn't sure, my raised axle side bracket clears everything but I wasn't sure if his bump stops would stop his up travel before he hits the diff. It's been a long time since I had a good hard look at the stock setup.

jjvw said:
The reason a poly bushing won't work is the same reason other bushings won't work on the frame side.

2003 Rubicon
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In my case it's fine as the frame side bracket is aftermarket and the bolt runs front to back. However I was more thinking on the axle side where I have a heim.

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Is bump steer an issue with the raised axle side?

2003 Rubicon
 
Jeepaholic said:
I've had no issues with my metal cloak bar either. Ihaven't seen very many complaints either, and also nobody with problems ever says why there was a problem. Badly balanced tires, bad bushings on control arms, etc can all be hard on any joint. I think the problem with the frame side mount is the way jeep has the mount oriented vertically, it limits the type of end that can be used. It needs to be able to pivot quite a bit, a horizontal mount like the jk uses can have the duroflex bushing, but the vertical mount would require a horizontal adapter, which brings up my question, how does the Currie bar mount frame side? You guys have me all worried about my m/c bar! View attachment 34609 View attachment 34610
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Here's your adapter ;) tmr used to make a non offset one as well but I don't see it on the site. A phone call would probably land you one though.

0846c3d1905186f675ee5a84b8a40244.jpg


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jjvw said:
I have a MC front on mine. It is doing the job. The only thing that bothers me is that the heim joint developed play within 10k miles. I don't think I notice it while driving and I haven't checked on in quite a while. I still don't like it.
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You know, I asked @Matsonian from Metalcloak about the heim joint thing a number of times, but he never got back to me (though he said he would) about it. Last I heard he was suffering from bronchitis, so I hope he's still alive, but that was months ago.

Anyways, the heim joint seems like a design failure, but I know nothing about this sort of engineering, so I could be wrong. But given how many people I've heard who had the same issue as you did with the heim joint, it makes me thing they could have put something better in place of it (i.e. a Duroflex joint).
 
jjvw said:
Is bump steer an issue with the raised axle side?

2003 Rubicon
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It can be, you have to get everything setup just right. Just so happens with my knuckles the and the stock pitman arm the geometry works with a raised axle side. Basically though without some crossover steering setup probably it will. For instance if you did wj knuckles perhaps a raises tb mount would work.

I basically used this
e1d3f5011d18fa97d3539a7e65df7770.jpg

and cut it down to the height I needed.

The key for me is remembering what will and won't work on a mostly stock setup as nothing below the frame came with my jeep.

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Drizit said:
Here's your adapter ;) tmr used to make a non offset one as well but I don't see it on the site. A phone call would probably land you one though.

View attachment 34611

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Does the Currie have a weld on bracket as well? While I have no problem adding things via welding, a lot of ppl would not like that, and the more "bolt on"a kit is, the easier it is for the vendors to sell I would expect.
 
The thing to remember is heim joints (cheaper ones at least) are about the least expensive flex joint on the market. So when you are trying to build to a price things like this happen.
A good alternative would be a high angle tie rod end. I use one on my drag link and the threaded shank for the tube is on an angle to the face if the joint. Could work provided you have the lift for an and designed the bar for it. Then you would have a greasable joint.

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Drizit said:
The thing to remember is heim joints (cheaper ones at least) are about the least expensive flex joint on the market. So when you are trying to build to a price things like this happen.
Click to expand...

Good point. It's definitely harder to get someone to pay $400 for a track bar versus $250!
 
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Chris said:
You know, I asked @Matsonian from Metalcloak about the heim joint thing a number of times, but he never got back to me (though he said he would) about it. Last I heard he was suffering from bronchitis, so I hope he's still alive, but that was months ago.

Anyways, the heim joint seems like a design failure, but I know nothing about this sort of engineering, so I could be wrong. But given how many people I've heard who had the same issue as you did with the heim joint, it makes me thing they could have put something better in place of it (i.e. a Duroflex joint).
Click to expand...

A bushing (cleavite, DF, ...) won't last long on the stock frame side mount because it can't withstand the constant misalignment the way that a heim or Johnny Joint can. The bushing can tear, deform and delaminate if it doesn't return to a neutral position, where the Johnny Joint doesn't care what position it is in. That was a reason I ultimately went with JJ control arms. JJ's are more robust by their nature.

A Johnny Joint is able to work better laying on its side than a heim can because the tight urethane races provide a good seal and has a wiping action keeping the ball clean; not allowing crud to get inside the assembly. A heim that is continually placed in and out of alignment will fail because it doesn't seal as well as a JJ.

That's how it was explained to me. Which makes good sense, I think. Clean balls.




2003 Rubicon
 
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Chris said:
Good point. It's definitely harder to get someone to pay $400 for a track bar versus $250!
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Exactly, up here a heim is about $20-30
A Johnny joint is about $75-100. That's a big difference if you need a pair of em.

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A heim joints primary function and design is to move up and down when the mounting bolt is in a horizontal position. That way the ball pivots primarily within the cup. When the bolt is vertical, like the track bar mount, the ball pivots too far out of it's cup causing more stress to the cup and introduces more contaminants.
 
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jjvw said:
A Johnny Joint is able to work better laying on its side than a heim can because the tight urethane races provide a good seal and has a wiping action keeping the ball clean; not allowing crud to get inside the assembly. A heim that is continually placed in and out of alignment will fail because it doesn't seal as well as a JJ.

That's how it was explained to me. Which makes good sense, I think. Clean balls.


2003 Rubicon
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I think the greasable nature of JJ's also helps keep water and mud out. With a heim it just sits there working at the Teflon coating until it's all eaten away.

Up here, sway bar link heim are a few seasons, steering is every season, control arms can be even worse. I'm gradually replacing every heim with something that has a grease fitting.

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jjvw said:
A bushing (cleavite, DF, ...) won't last long on the stock frame side mount because it can't withstand the constant misalignment the way that a heim or Johnny Joint can. The bushing can tear, deform and delaminate if it doesn't return to a neutral position, where the Johnny Joint doesn't care what position it is in. That was a reason I ultimately went with JJ control arms. JJ's are more robust by their nature.

A Johnny Joint is able to work better laying on its side than a heim can because the tight urethane races provide a good seal and has a wiping action keeping the ball clean; not allowing crud to get inside the assembly. A heim that is continually placed in and out of alignment will fail because it doesn't seal as well as a JJ.

That's how it was explained to me. Which makes good sense, I think. Clean balls.




2003 Rubicon
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Good explanation! This is why I think the Johnny Joint is also the best choice for anyone looking for the ultimate solution as far as joints go. It's tried, tested, and it's used on some of the most hardcore rigs out there.
 
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Rob5589 said:
A heim joints primary function and design is to move up and down when the mounting bolt is in a horizontal position. That way the ball pivots primarily within the cup. When the bolt is vertical, like the track bar mount, the ball pivots too far out of it's cup causing more stress to the cup and introduces more contaminants.
Click to expand...
Maybe a bracket like this would allow the heim joint to work within reasonable parameters:
original.jpg
 
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glwood said:
Maybe a bracket like this would allow the heim joint to work within reasonable parameters:
View attachment 34615
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It would. The 90° turn makes a big difference. Bear in mind that is a dropped bracket which will change the track bar's relationship to the drag link and will cause bump steer.

2003 Rubicon
 
I get something out of most threads. What I got out of this one is “Clean Balls” are important. I agree, and can’t overemphasize the importance. ;)

I run the MC without any major issue after 8000 miles. Once when I re-torqued at the axle side to 130ft/lbs, it stripped the flange nut. MC sent out two new ones ASAP. Good customer service, and if my Heim goes bad I bet they’ll send me a new one, like @jjvw.
 
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Took it down to the shop and checked all of the ball joints and rod ends. They all felt pretty tight. The tires did have about 35psi in them and the right front about 28psi, so I lowered them all to about 25psi. Also I went ahead and switched the new spare out with the front drivers side so that brand new tire won't go to waste.

I guess at this point I will start with a new track bar, get rid of the drop bracket, and get an alignment. One thing I need to check is to make sure that the hole had not been drilled out on the axle side of the TB. Since it does have a newish adjustable bar on it, it could potentially be drilled. I'm leaning towards the JKS TB and I don't think it requires the axle side to be drilled....

I don't see any need to get rid of the dual steering stabilizer setup as long as I get everything else taken care of.

I did notice that the control arms appear to be R.C. X-flex adjustable arms. Kind of disappointed in that, but don't know that it is a big enough issue to change them out sooner then later. I thought the whole lift would have been BDS since the Fox shocks are.... Oh well.

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What's the difference between the standard and HD JKS track bars? Is the HD needed?

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Riddler6.7 said:
I did notice that the control arms appear to be R.C. X-flex adjustable arms. Kind of disappointed in that, but don't know that it is a big enough issue to change them out sooner then later. I thought the whole lift would have been BDS since the Fox shocks are.... Oh well.

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If the RC X-flex control arms are the type with the threaded washer on one side that retains the bushing, I would not trust those. I had upper rear X-flex control arms on my previous X, which I sold to a friend. After one off-roading trip to Colorado, he kept telling me about a clunking sound from the right rear. We took it to a suspension shop for a diagnosis, and it turned out the threaded washer had come out. Not threaded out, pushed out past the threads, and pretty much destroyed the bushing. We checked the other side later, and it had begun to do the same thing, but had not progressed to the point of coming completely out. My buddy went back to oem control arms.

I have to give credit to RC, though, when I told them what had happened, they sent me two new control arm ends at no cost, which have been redesigned to use a snap ring instead of the threaded washer. Much better design. They're still in the box in storage, though...

If you check out the arms you have, they turn out to be RC, find they have that old type of end, and you want to keep the arms, I would contact RC and see if they would upgrade your arm ends. Doesn't hurt to ask.
 
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