Andy G needs brake love

I’ve ran a gallon of Dot 4 through it, done every imaginable test for the vacuum booster, and am on my second master cylinder- and I’m right where I started.
Never run more than a pint through the system. If a pint doesn't bleed it out, there is problem you have not found that more bleeding won't cure. Stop and find the problem.
Pedal travels too far once you start the engine. It’s drivable but the big brake kit isn’t able to shine.

The rear rubber lines come to mind, they appear original.
Again, can be tested with the engine running and some hard pedal use while someone watches the brake lines. If they are causing the soft pedal, the swelling will be easy to see.
I plan to get some cleaner tomorrow and clean all the connections and check for a leak-
FYI, the perfect solvent for brake fluid is plain old water. Brake fluid is hygroscopic to absorb water by design which means water also dilutes it which also means it can dilute it more than enough to wash it away.
To top it off I am getting persistent radiator cap leaks- on cap 3 now, a Stant I had in the shop.

I’ve read posts he’s made on other forums too, but can’t glean enough information to even know if I should bleed it running, what the light tells you or anything.
Never running and the light tells you the shuttle valve has shut down one end of the master due to differential pressure.
I just don’t know enough, or even know what to look for if I tear them down- except sticky pins or something obvious falls out.
 
Because if it shifts you won't be bleeding the brakes...Its shifted to the low pressure side (where you have opened the bleeder) and preventing more fluid flow.

Yep, and the person at the caliper should be relating that to the pedal pusher. If there is low or no flow, it will be obvious. The pedal should be pushed to the floor at each bleed stroke with enough enthusiasm that unrestrained fluid out of the bleed screw would shoot 4-5 feet across the shop.

To reiterate the process for this thread-
Open bleed screw, tell helper "down".
The pedal goes to the floor and is held there and says "down".
Bleeder closes bleed screw, says "up".
Helper lets pedal up and says "up" when it is all the way up.

Repeat 5-7 times per corner or until the only air visible in a clear line are the super tiny bubbles than can't be avoided. Helper should also note firmness of pedal while bleeder is moving to the next one to see if improvement in pedal firmness are being made and report such to the bleeder.
 
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I’ve even tried to go back and remember when this started and I was so busy in the beginning just sorting out the little things you do on a new vehicle and focusing on getting it to drive the way that I wanted, I just can’t remember how I got here.
That one still baffles me. I made the statement that if that rig drove the way it did when it left here, the first guy would have never sold it. It was easily in the top 5 well handling, well driving, very pleasant to drive rigs I've put hands on.
A mechanic suggested a way to block off one of the lines so that I could isolate the front and the back systems - I’ve never heard of doing that and I wondered what you guys thought about it.
Waste of time.
thanks again-

Andy
 
When you are bleeding, is your bleed hose in a jar under the surface of brake fluid?
Old wive's tale, stop that stuff. And, very easy to prove. Go out to your rig and open a bleed screw. Fluid will run out and the hydrostatic pressure from fluid running out will completely stop air from going in. If that weren't true, we'd never be able to gravity bleed to fill the piston bores since the air going in would push the fluid back up and out the top of the reservoir.
 
That one still baffles me. I made the statement that if that rig drove the way it did when it left here, the first guy would have never sold it. It was easily in the top 5 well handling, well driving, very pleasant to drive rigs I've put hands on.

Same here- the rear axle was off center over 1/2” and back nearly 3/4” on the passenger side, the front was out of square nearly 5/8” forward on the passenger side, the caster was bad low, arms in a bind, the front locker line off and jumped out of 4lo until I adjusted the cable throw. No telling who did what after it left California…I don’t know the exact history of the Jeep. No question it is the barometer of a good driving LJ now. I also added Johnny joints and the tombstone kit on the front uppers.

A one way bleeder is just a little inline check valve made by motion pro that allows the fluid one early as you bleed- likely if no value on a large brake system. Seemed to be handy on bikes so I tried one.

I’m hoping to call you tomorrow pm - I need to be at the vehicle, with a note pad and no one around so I can listen to the right way to do the whole job.

I’m about to sleep for a few hours then check my TJR intake bolts and back to church.

Thanks again, talk soon,
Andy
 
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Several things. First, have someone get in the rig and with the engine running, push and release the brakes fairly hard. You get some light on each caliper and watch them while they do that. You are watching for caliper movement. You should get a "sense" of it expanding and squeezing the pads to the rotor but no other movement at the caliper body. If there is, see if the caliper to guide pin bolts are tight. Check the guide pins in the bores to see if they have any excess slop or are locked up. When they are about right, you can set the caliper body on the bench with the saddle up. Lift the saddle and the weight of it should move the guide pins slowly into the bores.

Slop that allows the caliper body to sag will show up as excess pedal travel.

When that test is done, put the rig's rear axle on jackstands and idle it in gear. Get some light on the rear calipers and see if the rotor is moving them back and forth. If that is happening, it will cause caliper piston knock back and create excess pedal travel.

Checking in real quick- got in the rig to drive to church- pedal soft again. Not as soft as it was - just a little softer than my TJR - pretty nice stopping power, slight pull toward drivers side when hard braking, a little shake.

Man I’m gonna need you.

I got to thinking about what I “know” about brakes Blaine. It’s all shade tree,hand me down knowledge at best. Basically what’s always been passed around, right or wrong.

The first paragraph test was done yesterday - seems they are doing as described-

Rears removed and pins greased too

About to see if I can get a shuttle tool
Order going online with you and need some block off plugs if possible -

Also want to talk about an extra set of front pads, your rear pads and whether you think my rotors might need a light clean up since it’s been ran in the state it’s in at least 4-5,000 miles.

Excited to talk to you. We will get this.

Also thanks at @Weasellee, he knows why.

Andy
 
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I won't claim it was my smartest move, but my Datsun developed a booster leak and I was broke so I drove it around for a year with the line capped off at the manifold and the stiffest brake pedal I've ever stepped on.

My brain still doesn't compute that early TJs are now as old as that 280Z was when it was the oldest thing in my high school parking lot.
Had a gent purchase a rear disc conversion and install it, still complained about crappy brakes not working well with his 33's. I was unaware of the reason for the purchase until after he had also purchased a Super 16 kit, installed it, and then couldn't get the rig to stop. Phone and email went back and forth for months until finally I had him swing by. When it got here and I was going to take it out for a test drive, I hopped in, foot on the brake pedal and fired it up. Rock hard pedal. Didn't even bother backing it out, just pulled it in, swapped in a new booster and then went and did a break in on the kit. It would smoke those 33's if you just looked at the pedal funny. Couple of weeks later, get a call, the brakes suck. Alright, bring it by and we'll look at it. Go do a break in again, working perfectly. That repeated several times even though after the first time I had him drive while I watched. 30 mph, he starts lightly applying some brake a half a block away from the stop sign. I explain he can't do that, it will never work. Several times of him swinging by so we could break them in later, I told him I would swap the kit for the 15", no charge, so at least that way it had a slightly better chance of staying broken in. Either that, or he could work on trying to fix his braking habits. Nope, that's how my daddy taught me and I'm not changing and I don't want a smaller kit. Ok then, you do you, but I'm done breaking them in because you have too big of a kit.
 
Had a gent purchase a rear disc conversion and install it, still complained about crappy brakes not working well with his 33's. I was unaware of the reason for the purchase until after he had also purchased a Super 16 kit, installed it, and then couldn't get the rig to stop. Phone and email went back and forth for months until finally I had him swing by. When it got here and I was going to take it out for a test drive, I hopped in, foot on the brake pedal and fired it up. Rock hard pedal. Didn't even bother backing it out, just pulled it in, swapped in a new booster and then went and did a break in on the kit. It would smoke those 33's if you just looked at the pedal funny. Couple of weeks later, get a call, the brakes suck. Alright, bring it by and we'll look at it. Go do a break in again, working perfectly. That repeated several times even though after the first time I had him drive while I watched. 30 mph, he starts lightly applying some brake a half a block away from the stop sign. I explain he can't do that, it will never work. Several times of him swinging by so we could break them in later, I told him I would swap the kit for the 15", no charge, so at least that way it had a slightly better chance of staying broken in. Either that, or he could work on trying to fix his braking habits. Nope, that's how my daddy taught me and I'm not changing and I don't want a smaller kit. Ok then, you do you, but I'm done breaking them in because you have too big of a kit.

Sounds like conventional pads might suit him better?
 
Sounds like conventional pads might suit him better?

Or, listen to someone who knows what they are doing. The reality is he only needs a set of stock replacement pads and his entire brake improvement endeavor was all due to not being able to diagnose a bad booster. That is where we should start.
 
Sounds like conventional pads might suit him better?

in addition to:

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