Cut off for well mannered, street-able TJ?

It's probably moot with the stick method, but yes, my question was rhetorical to illustrate how many variables there are and that most outboarded Jeeps are likely not within half an inch of 50/50 in actual usage regardless of how much effort went into setting them that way from the start, therefore, if a fixture got them that close it would remove barriers to entry for this mod for people less comfortable with fabrication. I suspect there are people who would love the improved ride but don't offroad in a way that explicitly requires better than half an inch of precision and could feel more at peace tackling this or even taking it to a shop and handing over a fixture that gives even a little bit of hope that it'll be harder to screw up.

I assure you my $50 shocks would ride equally like ass at 50/50 as they do at the 45/55 (front) and 55/45 (rear) that they currently sit.

It isn't complicated. Set the ride height for shock mounts at 50/50 with whatever pile of stuff you typically carry along when you want the optimal shock performance. If you want that optimal performance while rock crawling with a hardtop, full hard doors, a big cooler full of ice cream, wife, girlfriend, all three mastiffs, and every tool you own, then that is what you build the shocks around.

The greater the variance from that configuration's weight, the more the ride height will change and the more the shock's performance will be affected.

For perspective, understand that filling up an empty gas tank sinks the rear about 1/4" with about 90lbs of fuel. You can calculate that more specifically with your spring rates. Or you can simply measure and watch while you stand at the pump. Tools, gear, and body weights are all going to meander a bit over time. The dogs die.

The biggest problem comes from guys who build shock mounts with a completely naked, empty, unloaded Jeep. Then later on pile in a few hundred pounds of gear, full gas cans, and a RTT and wonder why the shocks are bottoming out.
 
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It's probably moot with the stick method, but yes, my question was rhetorical to illustrate how many variables there are and that most outboarded Jeeps are likely not within half an inch of 50/50 in actual usage regardless of how much effort went into setting them that way from the start, therefore, if a fixture got them that close it would remove barriers to entry for this mod for people less comfortable with fabrication. I suspect there are people who would love the improved ride but don't offroad in a way that explicitly requires better than half an inch of precision and could feel more at peace tackling this or even taking it to a shop and handing over a fixture that gives even a little bit of hope that it'll be harder to screw up.

I assure you my $50 shocks would ride equally like ass at 50/50 as they do at the 45/55 (front) and 55/45 (rear) that they currently sit.
So because there isn't a fixture or a template, no one who does this gets it close to design heights? There is not any better way to tell everyone you don't know shit about how this works.
 
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It isn't complicated. Set the ride height for shock mounts at 50/50 with whatever pile of stuff you typically carry along when you want the optimal shock performance. If you want that optimal performance while rock crawling with a hardtop, full hard doors, a big cooler full of ice cream, wife, girlfriend, all three mastiffs, and every tool you own, then that is what you build the shocks around.

The greater the variance from that configuration's weight, the more the ride height will change and the more the shock's performance will be affected.

For perspective, understand that filling up an empty gas tank sinks the rear about 1/4" with about 90lbs of fuel. You can calculate that more specifically with your spring rates. Or you can simply measure and watch while you stand at the pump. Tools, gear, and body weights are all going to meander a bit over time. The dogs die.

The biggest problem comes from guys who build shock mounts with a completely naked, empty, unloaded Jeep. Then later on pile in a few hundred pounds of gear, full gas cans, and a RTT and wonder why the shocks are bottoming out.
It is complicated if you want it to be and don't understand it.
 
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My perfectionism will show up in checking for ample clearance through full range of motion on every component that moves and making it all look as much as possible like it left the factory that way.
Not possible since the top of the rear shocks isn't visible outside the frame. The factory doesn't use single cut unrolled edges that mimic anything like an outboard shock tower. Nor would the factory ever hack all the way through the frame to do something like an outboard tower. That simply flies in the face of any OEM design philosophy.
How do you configure the Jeep when you determine the ride height at which the shock will sit exactly at 50/50? Full tank and loaded with gear and then have extra uptravel most of the time? Or shoot for the middle?
I have many pointed discussions about how the rig will be used and it arrives to me in the 90% condition under which it will live. If you happen to be one of those who wants to run around empty 90% of the time and then toss 800 pounds of gear in the back with a cooler strapped over the spare tire, I'm not your guy and won't be. I refuse to entertain any discussions as to why it all of a sudden starts bottoming out the shocks when I didn't set it up to do that.
 
It's probably moot with the stick method, but yes, my question was rhetorical to illustrate how many variables there are and that most outboarded Jeeps are likely not within half an inch of 50/50 in actual usage regardless of how much effort went into setting them that way from the start, therefore, if a fixture got them that close it would remove barriers to entry for this mod for people less comfortable with fabrication. I suspect there are people who would love the improved ride but don't offroad in a way that explicitly requires better than half an inch of precision and could feel more at peace tackling this or even taking it to a shop and handing over a fixture that gives even a little bit of hope that it'll be harder to screw up.

I assure you my $50 shocks would ride equally like ass at 50/50 as they do at the 45/55 (front) and 55/45 (rear) that they currently sit.

The stick is for after you create your ride height to make it easier to place mounts. It all ties in.

Arbitrary as that ride height can be in certain situations
 
This is how I simulated my weight to determine ride height.

I had the gas tank out too so I added that weight back.

IMG20250825193100.webp
IMG20250825193821.webp
IMG20250825195106.webp


-Mac
 
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So because there isn't a fixture or a template, no one who does this gets it close to design heights? There is not any better way to tell everyone you don't know shit about how this works.

That's not what I said, and if that's the point you took then we don't need to keep going with this.
 
In the subject of outboards on less than a 4inch lift. It’s an interesting subject bc I see 3 main goals. Increased travel, tunable shock, and better mounting location. Doing so with less than a 4inch lift makes for a difficult time getting the travel.
My current coils are skyjacker 2.5inch coils that are giving me 3inch of ride height lift. The fronts have a free length of 21.5inches. With a ride height of 3inch which sets the coil at 15inch that gives me 6.5inch of down travel before the coil unseats. The rear is similar. Free length of 17.5 and a 11inch ride height gives another 6.5inch of down travel. It would give a 5.5inch of up travel on both ends. Not a perfect 50/50 but the goal here is just to use as much travel as the coil offers rather than the bias. I think with the improved tune and mounting spots it is still worth the work and cost. I have not done it yet but I think a 5.5inch up travel would be great as I’m using 5 inch up travel right now and it’s been great. Going even lower to like a 2inch or no lift will be harder as coil travel is even less but I’d suspect a 10inch outboard for those lift would still be worth it.
 
In the subject of outboards on less than a 4inch lift. It’s an interesting subject bc I see 3 main goals. Increased travel, tunable shock, and better mounting location. Doing so with less than a 4inch lift makes for a difficult time getting the travel.
My current coils are skyjacker 2.5inch coils that are giving me 3inch of ride height lift. The fronts have a free length of 21.5inches. With a ride height of 3inch which sets the coil at 15inch that gives me 6.5inch of down travel before the coil unseats. The rear is similar. Free length of 17.5 and a 11inch ride height gives another 6.5inch of down travel. It would give a 5.5inch of up travel on both ends. Not a perfect 50/50 but the goal here is just to use as much travel as the coil offers rather than the bias. I think with the improved tune and mounting spots it is still worth the work and cost. I have not done it yet but I think a 5.5inch up travel would be great as I’m using 5 inch up travel right now and it’s been great. Going even lower to like a 2inch or no lift will be harder as coil travel is even less but I’d suspect a 10inch outboard for those lift would still be worth it.

Thank you.
 
In the subject of outboards on less than a 4inch lift. It’s an interesting subject bc I see 3 main goals. Increased travel, tunable shock, and better mounting location. Doing so with less than a 4inch lift makes for a difficult time getting the travel.
My current coils are skyjacker 2.5inch coils that are giving me 3inch of ride height lift. The fronts have a free length of 21.5inches. With a ride height of 3inch which sets the coil at 15inch that gives me 6.5inch of down travel before the coil unseats. The rear is similar. Free length of 17.5 and a 11inch ride height gives another 6.5inch of down travel. It would give a 5.5inch of up travel on both ends. Not a perfect 50/50 but the goal here is just to use as much travel as the coil offers rather than the bias. I think with the improved tune and mounting spots it is still worth the work and cost. I have not done it yet but I think a 5.5inch up travel would be great as I’m using 5 inch up travel right now and it’s been great. Going even lower to like a 2inch or no lift will be harder as coil travel is even less but I’d suspect a 10inch outboard for those lift would still be worth it.

Your setup allows your coils to unseat at droop?
 
Your setup allows your coils to unseat at droop?

The fronts technically yes as the tops are not retained but the lowers are. Rears have Currie bumps so they are retained on both ends. You just won’t get any more down travel in the rear and not good pressure down travel in the front.
 
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In the subject of outboards on less than a 4inch lift. It’s an interesting subject bc I see 3 main goals. Increased travel, tunable shock, and better mounting location. Doing so with less than a 4inch lift makes for a difficult time getting the travel.
My current coils are skyjacker 2.5inch coils that are giving me 3inch of ride height lift. The fronts have a free length of 21.5inches. With a ride height of 3inch which sets the coil at 15inch that gives me 6.5inch of down travel before the coil unseats. The rear is similar. Free length of 17.5 and a 11inch ride height gives another 6.5inch of down travel. It would give a 5.5inch of up travel on both ends. Not a perfect 50/50 but the goal here is just to use as much travel as the coil offers rather than the bias. I think with the improved tune and mounting spots it is still worth the work and cost. I have not done it yet but I think a 5.5inch up travel would be great as I’m using 5 inch up travel right now and it’s been great. Going even lower to like a 2inch or no lift will be harder as coil travel is even less but I’d suspect a 10inch outboard for those lift would still be worth it.

A lot of the subtext in arguing for 50/50 travel is about building in up travel and making as much as possible for it's multiple performance improvements. Preserving and making up travel takes thought, planning, and effort. Making down travel is much easier. And losing up travel takes almost no effort.
 
The fronts technically yes as the tops are not retained but the lowers are. Rears have Currie bumps so they are retained on both ends. You just won’t get any more down travel in the rear and not good pressure down travel in the front.

If the shocks are sized with consideration for spring travel, then it would be wise for the spring to retain pressure within it's spring seats at full shock extension. Primarily to retain the front coils and prevent their rotation in the lower seat, and as a functional acknowledgement that the tire loses most of its traction once the coil loses spring pressure from the weight of the Jeep.
 
If the shocks are sized with consideration for spring travel, then it would be wise for the spring to retain pressure within it's spring seats at full shock extension. Primarily to retain the front coils and prevent their rotation in the lower seat, and as a functional acknowledgement that the tire loses most of its traction once the coil loses spring pressure from the weight.

Out of curiosity with your front setup adding the helper spring is that helper enough pressure to have any considerable force pushing down or just enough to hold the spring? What helper spring rate did you use?
 
Out of curiosity with your front setup adding the helper spring is that helper enough pressure to have any considerable force pushing down or just enough to hold the spring? What helper spring rate did you use?

The helper is there specifically for that purpose. The little coilover spring is about 35lbs/in, if I recall. When the main coil drops ~3/8" at full shock extension, the helper is pushing just enough to stop the main from rotating. I can rotate it by hand. But so far, after several years it is doing its job.
 
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The helper is there specifically for that purpose. The little coilover spring is about 35lbs/in, if I recall. When the main coil drops ~3/8" at full shock extension, the helper is pushing just enough to stop the main from rotating. I can rotate it by hand. But so far, after several years it is doing its job.
It may be worthwhile to mention why the helper is needed and why we rarely use them.
 
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