Anyone have a rock crawler?

Fouledplugs said:
Would the word from an Ultra4 champion be of any value? He owns Marked Motorsports and builds Ultra 4 and KOH rigs.

He was quoted saying the leafs on his JKU build ride great and flex “like mad” off road: “The handling on the road is great and they flex like mad on the trail.”

From his website: https://markedmotorsports.com/jan-2017-4wheel-offroad-jp-featured-the-leaf-spring-jk-p-167.html
“2008 jeep wrangler JKU that was specifically built to be lighter, longer, and more capable then similar built JK's on the trail. Professionally built in 2016 by rock crawling, and Ultra4 champion Jake Hallenbeck. The JK features a minimalist approach by keeping it simple and light, while using quality components that work. Its design was meant for trail fun while keeping his children and wife safe. The jeep was featured in the January 2017 Issue of Petersens 4wheel & Offroad.

The main attribute you will notice is the jeep is mounted on leaf spirngs. WHY? This jeep can do 80mph with one finger on the steering wheel. There is no bump steer or any other negative effects on the street caused by a majority of suspension systems on the market.

Typical JK's have coil springs which are not captured (mounted) on the top. Weither turning on the street or flexing, nothing is pulling the body back to the suspension which lets the body roll. Add a locker, and bad suspension geometry, and the body roll is heavily increased on the street as well as offroad. Coilover shocks also work in the same way. They only PUSH UP, never pulling down, only adding to an already unsafe issue.

Leaf springs "pull down" as well as "push up" creating a perfect balance which also makes this JKU more capable offroad then the next. Leafsprings do have some spring wrap or wheel hop, but to alleviate the issue Jake added a custom traction bar which doesn't limit articulation. This JK has NO swaybar, and if that's not proof enough of the concept, or you dont think its capable enough, come take it for a ride!”

Wonder if his last sentence there is a bluff...?
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Until demonstrated or verified, I don't consider any of that to be anything more than a bunch of words; that's not to detract from someone's knowledge or ability, but merely to say that I have learned - painfully - to not trust everything I read. The guy might be an amazing fabricator, designer and driver, but he also might be a pathological liar, an idiot, or just downright stupid; I don't know the man, I haven't driven the rig, I don't know anyone that's driven the rig...so it exists as merely a conceptual example. I can also go back to "leaves that are well set-up will work better than poorly set-up links" as a possible explanation for the claims he's making, and lastly, I can also outright disagree with some of he's been said. So...no, that doesn't verify anything for me.

Also: sarcasm and passive-aggression are markedly different; I have to side with Chris on that... and I also want to see the OPs take on a leaf-sprung rock buggy.
 
If the claims the Marked Designs guy is making are true, doesn't it make you wonder why the world shifted away from leafs in the first place? There must be some kind of secret knowledge or conspiracy going on. Are we being manipulated by Big Coil?
 
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jjvw said:
If the claims the Marked Designs guy is making are true, doesn't it make you wonder why the world shifted away from leafs in the first place? There must be some kind of secret knowledge or conspiracy going on. Are we being manipulated by Big Coil?
Click to expand...

I love reading a well-crafted joke; thank you.
 
Submit yourself to Big Coil!
images (1).jpeg
 
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jjvw said:
If the claims the Marked Designs guy is making are true, doesn't it make you wonder why the world shifted away from leafs in the first place? There must be some kind of secret knowledge or conspiracy going on. Are we being manipulated by Big Coil?
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😂 😂 😂 Never stated they were better than coils/coilovers.Re read my post #79.

A9C8FC67-9158-4863-9AE1-7A91A8DB2AC0.jpeg


The ultra4 champion driver/builder never stated leafs were better. He stated that he wanted to do something that was cheaper than the equivilant JKU on 40s and it be just as capable.
 
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Fouledplugs said:
Would the word from an Ultra4 champion be of any value? He owns Marked Motorsports and builds Ultra 4 and KOH rigs.

He was quoted saying the leafs on his JKU build ride great and flex “like mad” off road: “The handling on the road is great and they flex like mad on the trail.”

From his website: https://markedmotorsports.com/jan-2017-4wheel-offroad-jp-featured-the-leaf-spring-jk-p-167.html
“2008 jeep wrangler JKU that was specifically built to be lighter, longer, and more capable then similar built JK's on the trail. Professionally built in 2016 by rock crawling, and Ultra4 champion Jake Hallenbeck. The JK features a minimalist approach by keeping it simple and light, while using quality components that work. Its design was meant for trail fun while keeping his children and wife safe. The jeep was featured in the January 2017 Issue of Petersens 4wheel & Offroad.

The main attribute you will notice is the jeep is mounted on leaf spirngs. WHY? This jeep can do 80mph with one finger on the steering wheel. There is no bump steer or any other negative effects on the street caused by a majority of suspension systems on the market.

Typical JK's have coil springs which are not captured (mounted) on the top. Weither turning on the street or flexing, nothing is pulling the body back to the suspension which lets the body roll. Add a locker, and bad suspension geometry, and the body roll is heavily increased on the street as well as offroad. Coilover shocks also work in the same way. They only PUSH UP, never pulling down, only adding to an already unsafe issue.

Leaf springs "pull down" as well as "push up" creating a perfect balance which also makes this JKU more capable offroad then the next. Leafsprings do have some spring wrap or wheel hop, but to alleviate the issue Jake added a custom traction bar which doesn't limit articulation. This JK has NO swaybar, and if that's not proof enough of the concept, or you dont think its capable enough, come take it for a ride!”

Wonder if his last sentence there is a bluff...?
Click to expand...
Do you really need someone to dissect all of that bullshit for you?
 
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I just saw this thread for the first time but I didn't notice anything about any connection between rock crawlers and DDs.

Is there even such a thing?

And if so, wouldn't they be only part rock crawler and/or part DD? Kinda like the Gladiator being only part truck and part Jeep?
 
JEEPCJTJ said:
I just saw this thread for the first time but I didn't notice anything about any connection between rock crawlers and DDs.

Is there even such a thing?

And if so, wouldn't they be only part rock crawler and/or part DD? Kinda like the Gladiator being only part truck and part Jeep?
Click to expand...

What is a rock crawler? Why can't one be daily driven?
 
Chris said:
It certainly can. The term "driver fatigue" comes to mind however ;)
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Maybe. This thing we might call a rock crawler is the end result of a series of solutions to a whole bunch of (presumably identified) problems. There is no reason comfort and drivability can't be among those solutions.
 
JEEPCJTJ said:
I just saw this thread for the first time but I didn't notice anything about any connection between rock crawlers and DDs.

Is there even such a thing?

And if so, wouldn't they be only part rock crawler and/or part DD? Kinda like the Gladiator being only part truck and part Jeep?
Click to expand...
A 4.8/5.3 would yield much better MPG’s but the 4.0 works for daily use.

38s red labels, dana 60 king pin front, GM 14 bolt rear, waggy rears in the front, xj’s in the rear, stretched front and rear, dana 300 Detroit lockers front and rear.

It may not be flawless but its so much fun to wheel and drives on the street with great manners.

Bham Alabama to Coppinger Cove TN (Pic Heavy)
 
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MallCrawlOnTons said:
What’s wrong with leaf sprung rock crawlers on one tons and 40s. Leafs a super simple and work really well. Sometimes it appears they work better than linked jeeps.
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If they're working better than a linked Jeep, someone didn't set those Jeeps up correctly.
 
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Fouledplugs said:
A 4.8/5.3 would yield much better MPG’s but the 4.0 works for daily use.

38s red labels, dana 60 king pin front, GM 14 bolt rear, waggy rears in the front, xj’s in the rear, stretched front and rear, dana 300 Detroit lockers front and rear.

It may not be flawless but its so much fun to wheel and drives on the street with great manners.

Bham Alabama to Coppinger Cove TN (Pic Heavy)
Click to expand...
I'm still trying to figure out why no one has commented on the very unique feature on the rig with the 1/4 elliptical rear springs that is also what makes a traction bar on sprung over rigs so difficult to get correct. It is an awesome solution, I don't think it goes far enough though.
 
jjvw said:
What is a rock crawler? Why can't one be daily driven?
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When I hear rock crawler, I see something that is going to crawl rocks so well it may not even be street legal.

I didn't say rock crawlers can't be daily driven but when I hear daily driver, I see something more like a Wrangler, maybe with a lift, yet other people may see something that won't even ever be on a gravel road, but that's another subject itself. If the "best of both worlds" ever worked, ships would fly.
 
JEEPCJTJ said:
When I hear rock crawler, I see something that is going to crawl rocks so well it may not even be street legal.

I didn't say rock crawlers can't be daily driven but when I hear daily driver, I see something more like a Wrangler, maybe with a lift, yet other people may see something that won't even ever be on a gravel road, but that's another subject itself. If the "best of both worlds" ever worked, ships would fly.
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If it matters, I've built a lot of rock crawlers that are daily driven and several that drive to JV, run trails, drive home. They are not even a tiny bit mutually exclusive.
 
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jjvw said:
Maybe. This thing we might call a rock crawler is the end result of a series of solutions to a whole bunch of (presumably identified) problems. There is no reason comfort and drivability can't be among those solutions.
Click to expand...
I think it really depends on what’s local to you as far as wheeling. Here in Alabama, 38s and you can have a lot of fun on most trails. In my opinion, 42s would be perfect and more ideal for the types of trails that we wheel.

Some local trail videos:

 
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