Best shocks for a smooth ride?

I have swapped springs on the front struts of a T4R and spring rating does make a slight difference. The T4R has a lot of brake dive when stock. Old Man Emu struts and springs made a big difference. Almost too stiff for my minimal added weight. I tried a lighter Old Man Emu spring and the ride improved only slightly. The brake dive returned but it was minimal. The spring swap wasn’t worth effort or expense. On the T4R I’d say that the new AT tires vs stock P made the biggest difference in increased road feel.
I have also swapped to heavy rear Old Man Emu from lights on the Jeep. I noticed no difference in ride quality, just a 1/2” higher ride height.

The only way a spring changes the ride is if it changes the ride height. Changing the ride height changes how the shock behaves with regard to its travel bias.
 
Springs do not contribute to the ride quality in any meaningful way. Shocks do that.
Right, I agree that shocks are much more responsible for the comfort of the ride. I wasn't claiming that the springs determine ride quality, I was clarifying that spring rates can differ even at the same ride height, and do have an effect on the vehicle. The spring constant affects the handling (read: handling, not comfort) of a vehicle.
 
Interesting information. For my purposes, (not much off-roading) no reason to throw money in new springs, just good shocks.
Thanks, everyone.
 
Right, I agree that shocks are much more responsible for the comfort of the ride. I wasn't claiming that the springs determine ride quality, I was clarifying that spring rates can differ even at the same ride height, and do have an effect on the vehicle. The spring constant affects the handling (read: handling, not comfort) of a vehicle.

That's still more of a shock concern. Spring rates on a long travel suspension like a TJ have no meaningful effect on the handling.
 
Interesting information. For my purposes, (not much off-roading) no reason to throw money in new springs, just good shocks.
Thanks, everyone.
The reason to focus on the specifics of a spring beyond the ride height it creates is to get one that has sufficient free length and minimal bind height to support the shock travels that are being built into the suspension. On road or off road use is kind of incidental.
 
Shocks control the action of the spring. They do a lot of the fine tuning of the ride, but the spring is what flexes to allow the shock to function. A lower spring rate (softer spring) will move more in reaction to the terrain. More movement of the spring will allow the suspension to react without upsetting the frame and chassis above. If the spring is not doing it's job then the shock has no input.
Now, the only way to get the most out of your spring is to have your sprung weight consistent. A spring that is too hard will transfer more energy farther up the vehicle. A spring too soft can cause wild and unsafe conditions if it isn't controlled by the shock. The two have to work together to achieve your goal.
The reason why no one asks 'what spring do you have' when tuning their shocks is pretty simple. You have the spring that is installed and they are setting the shock to function the best with the spring you have. They don't ask about what caliper you are running when you go for better brake pads. Unless you have something that is not compatible with the stock system, such as springs in a different position or calipers off a Chevy, then it is assumed to be basically compatible with other stock options.
 
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Shocks control the action of the spring. They do a lot of the fine tuning of the ride, but the spring is what flexes to allow the shock to function. A lower spring rate (softer spring) will move more in reaction to the terrain. More movement of the spring will allow the suspension to react without upsetting the frame and chassis above. If the spring is not doing it's job then the shock has no input.
Now, the only way to get the most out of your spring is to have your sprung weight consistent. A spring that is too hard will transfer more energy farther up the vehicle. A spring too soft can cause wild and unsafe conditions if it isn't controlled by the shock. The two have to work together to achieve your goal.
The reason why no one asks 'what spring do you have' when tuning their shocks is pretty simple. You have the spring that is installed and they are setting the shock to function the best with the spring you have. They don't ask about what caliper you are running when you go for better brake pads. Unless you have something that is not compatible with the stock system, such as springs in a different position or calipers off a Chevy, then it is assumed to be basically compatible with other stock options.

Can you give a specific example of a spring for a TJ that is too hard or too soft? This needs to be one the is intended for a TJ and one that is commonly available for a TJ.
 
Can you give a specific example of a spring for a TJ that is too hard or too soft? This needs to be one the is intended for a TJ and one that is commonly available for a TJ.
Piggybacking: If what your looking for is an all-around spring/coil that will give a fairly smooth pavement ride, but could handle some off-road activities are the stock springs on a TJ about as close as you would get?
 
The only way a spring changes the ride is if it changes the ride height. Changing the ride height changes how the shock behaves with regard to its travel bias.
So, if you wanted to add a 2" lift to your TJ, would this come from changing out the springs/Coils?
 
So, if you wanted to add a 2" lift to your TJ, would this come from changing out the springs/Coils?
If you change the ride height you change the existing shocks travel bias which changes how the shock behaves.
 
Piggybacking: If what your looking for is an all-around spring/coil that will give a fairly smooth pavement ride, but could handle some off-road activities are the stock springs on a TJ about as close as you would get?
Then you want a spring that provides stock ride height with a shock that you like.
 
The reason why no one asks 'what spring do you have' when tuning their shocks is pretty simple. You have the spring that is installed and they are setting the shock to function the best with the spring you have.
How do they know how to set the shock if they don't know what spring you have? Or, maybe it just doesn't matter and we can fully ignore the rest of what you said.
 
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Can you give a specific example of a spring for a TJ that is too hard or too soft? This needs to be one the is intended for a TJ and one that is commonly available for a TJ.
Here is the best info that I can find about how spring rate affects ride/handling.....

Go to the "build thread and members ride" section. See if you can find the extremely well written and detailed write up by a guy named "JJVW". Go to page 6 of that write up. Also look for posts #134, #204 and many others in that area. Hopefully they don't get changed or removed. The gentleman was quite emphatic about what changes in spring rates has been for him. Very well written. Better than I could hope to explain by myself.

We seem to always have the same round and round on this topic and I just don't understand why. Spring makers (there really aren't that many) have tried single rate, dual rate, variable rate all trying to get a vehicle to ride better. If the spring makes no difference then why do they go through so much to make a spring? And why is one brand so often praised while another brand is scoffed at if it makes no difference?
A good shock tuner can do wonders to make a suspension move how the owner wants. But what they are really doing is getting the SPRING to move how the owner wants. Because that is all a shock absorber does is help control how the spring moves.

But, again, I think JJVW did an excellent job explaining this in his build thread.👍
 
We seem to always have the same round and round on this topic and I just don't understand why. Spring makers (there really aren't that many) have tried single rate, dual rate, variable rate all trying to get a vehicle to ride better.
There aren't many who would agree spring makers try those various formulations in order to make a vehicle ride better.

When a TJ is equipped with springs that are appropriate to its weight, i.e. they have the correct spring rate, and if it had a harsh ride, I CERTAINLY would not suspect the spring to be the cause of the harsh ride. I'd focus solely on the shocks.
 
Here is the best info that I can find about how spring rate affects ride/handling.....

Go to the "build thread and members ride" section. See if you can find the extremely well written and detailed write up by a guy named "JJVW". Go to page 6 of that write up. Also look for posts #134, #204 and many others in that area. Hopefully they don't get changed or removed. The gentleman was quite emphatic about what changes in spring rates has been for him. Very well written. Better than I could hope to explain by myself.

We seem to always have the same round and round on this topic and I just don't understand why. Spring makers (there really aren't that many) have tried single rate, dual rate, variable rate all trying to get a vehicle to ride better. If the spring makes no difference then why do they go through so much to make a spring? And why is one brand so often praised while another brand is scoffed at if it makes no difference?
A good shock tuner can do wonders to make a suspension move how the owner wants. But what they are really doing is getting the SPRING to move how the owner wants. Because that is all a shock absorber does is help control how the spring moves.

But, again, I think JJVW did an excellent job explaining this in his build thread.👍

I'm going to have go and add my current thoughts to my old post now that I have more knowledge and experience on the subject. That way both you and Brian will stop digging up something I wrote 5+ years ago in an attempt to undermine those who know better.
 
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We seem to always have the same round and round on this topic and I just don't understand why.
Because getting folks to understand how stuff works is very much like pouring water on a fucking duck, it just has no effect. That and folks like you do everything possible to avoid answering a question that will lead you down the path toward enlightenment. How does the shock tuner know how to make your spring work better if he does not know what spring you have? You didn't answer that before and I know you won't again but there it is if you care to explain your previous position on that.
Spring makers (there really aren't that many) have tried single rate, dual rate, variable rate all trying to get a vehicle to ride better. If the spring makes no difference then why do they go through so much to make a spring? And why is one brand so often praised while another brand is scoffed at if it makes no difference?
A good shock tuner can do wonders to make a suspension move how the owner wants. But what they are really doing is getting the SPRING to move how the owner wants. Because that is all a shock absorber does is help control how the spring moves.
They are not really trying to get the rigs to ride better, they are trying to make you believe they are making the rig ride better so you will buy their shit.

Not one of them has ever said "buy our shit because it will make your rig suck".

How many folks do you know that have acquired springs and had them put on a spring dyno? If you really want to know what is going on, ask the spring sellers to show you the dyno chart where they can prove their variable rate bullshit. They won't in general because they are only progressively wound, not progressive rate and those are not the same thing.
 
So I'm guessing that all you need when buying a lift kit is some spring spacers and a set of the cheapest shocks (Rancho 5000x) available.
How stupid every vehicle manufacturer is to go and spend all those millions of dollars to tune a suspension when all they need is different shocks. Hopefully Jeep will read up on this and save soon much time, effort and money.
As to why I will not say which specific spring a Jeep actually needs, it is because every Jeep is different. Different weight. Different build. Different purpose.
I guess the next time I go into a spring shop they will just have a long 100 foot spring on the table. Tell them what spring height you want and they chop off a chunk for you. Drive a moped? Drive a school bus? Dosen't matter. How long a chunk you want?
So for those of you who expect me to be able to quip off a random spring rate for every TJ to need, I ask you what is the specific valving that every shock should have? How about me specifically? Tell me the exact valving is optimal for my Jeep? Obviously you must know, or do I get to call you full of shit too?
The ONLY THING a shock does is to dampen the movement of the spring. That is the only thing they do. Period.