Weight is key. You can make a heavy vehicle go fast and handle well, but I haven't found one that's really fun to drive. My all time favorite daily driver was my wife's '85 VW golf (not a GTI, a totally base model 3 door w/ 85 hp and a 5 spd). It had manual steering and didn't even come with a radio. It also weighed under 2000#. I wasn't fast but felt peppy enough and it seemed you could feel every pebble in the pavement through the the steering wheel when pushing it in a corner. I have never had more fun a legal speeds on public roads.
Building a 10,000 RPM Jeep 4.0
- Thread starter Brianj5600
- Start date
Weight is key. You can make a heavy vehicle go fast and handle well, but I haven't found one that's really fun to drive. My all time favorite daily driver was my wife's '85 VW golf (not a GTI, a totally base model 3 door w/ 85 hp and a 5 spd). It had manual steering and didn't even come with a radio. It also weighed under 2000#. I wasn't fast but felt peppy enough and it seemed you could feel every pebble in the pavement through the the steering wheel when pushing it in a corner. I have never had more fun a legal speeds on public roads.
Well, my supercharged I6 got about 10 mpg, so there's that...
Its amazing to me how the rest of the world gets by with sub-100 HP cars, but North America somehow can't. Of course, the rest of the world gets by without all the power crap and "technology" as well - at least, enough people buy such vehicles that they're available most places other than here. *shrug*
I am no engineer, nor do I play one on a forum, but my pea brain always thought you increased the fuel efficiency with a blower.
I bet they don't go crawling in Bangladesh, except on their knees.
Impressive, but exactly my point. The Tesla is heavy but fast (and also handles well in part because of the battery weight is down low). But I've driven them and other heavy but fast ICE SUVs. The feel (or lack there of) in those vehicles just doesn't do it for me.
Efficiency yes. Economy not usually - there's a balance point. Put your foot in it and that energy has to come from somewhere. You burn more fuel more efficiently!
I'm with you here - while low-end torque is nice in certain instances, for a driver and really anything that sees the road, I'll take a solid mid-range any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I think of the older 4.2L AMC as an example. The 4.2L had a ton of torque down low, maxing out at around 2000 RPM, but the motor fell on its face above 2500 RPM. The 4.0L on the other hand made similar peak torque numbers, but at almost double the RPM. As much as the 4.0L can be a dog on the highway, the 4.2L equipped Jeeps were much worse. Living back in PA now, I'm driving my LJ on the same roads as our old CJ-7. While I wish the 4.0L had more mid-range (for exactly the reasons you've described), I remember how much worse the 4.2L was (in a stock, 30" tire rig!).
It is only amazing because you want it to be. Until recently, we had cheap fuel, long wide open stretches of road, enough disposable income to pursue hobbies, activities, and lifestyles that are all entirely foreign to other countries. They have entirely different needs, lifestyles and terrain that make their selection of vehicles appropriate for them and we get to enjoy the exact same levels of appropriate.
You know why we have 700 horsepower factory hot rods sitting on the dealership floors? Because we fucking can, that's why. That is what we are about, what we've been about and the death of that will be a very long time to finally happen. It isn't an issue of getting by, the mainstream folks with their econobox commuter cars are what our version of getting by is. There is an entirely different group that likes to go fast, likes to haul ass up long grades towing 25,000 lbs and get 15 mpg doing it. That is what America really is all about. We do shit because we can, because we like it, and because few others do it.
We have some amazing electric cars being built now. What's the first fucking thing they did with them? That's right, they took them to the dragstrip and starting whipping up on a lot of IC cars that thought they were fast. That is America in a nutshell right there. We compete, that's what we do and we don't give a shit what the rest of the world can get by with.
It isn't that we can't, it is because we won't, nor should we. That is not who we are. We are not driven by or bound by what others consider to be logical. We have toilet paper for god's sake. The rest of the world that lives with sub 100 horsepower piece of shit diesel motors uses a bucket of water and a couple of fingers.
Instead of being amazed, try being observant. I do find it a bit odd that you own one of the more illogical rigs out there though.
I'm glad you brought that up. That is how my helper describes what happens in the AW-4 swaps. He says it is like driving one of the 4.2 AMC rigs. Takes off fine and then about the time you need it to turn on and go, it falls on its face.
Oh they were awful... There's absolutely nothing more disappointing during a drive than to have a motor fall flat when you want/need it most.
Here's a perfect local example of why a lack of usable mid-range sucks donkey dick, and why those "select few" who insist the 4.2L "wAs KiNg!" are wrong... Wildcat Hill Rd:
It's a relatively short, local stretch of road (about 4 miles long) that winds and goes from ~1040' ASL to ~1420' ASL (which at ~380' of elevation rise, is larger than the highest point in Florida!). The grade varies, but is ~2-3% in most spots. There are a few flat spots but they are short and usually around a curve.
My dad's old CJ-7 could do a wicked burnout and lay rubber for days - while at the same time could barely maintain the speed limit up this hill (in any gear!). I give the 4.0L shit for being a glorified tractor motor but it feels like a rally car by comparison up this hill! I couldn't imagine my dad's CJ-7 in Arizona, where you go from ~1300' ASL in the Phoenix Valley up to over 7700' ASL above the Rim (Payson/Prescott) in ~60 miles. It has to be worse than the 2.5L YJ guys on 35"s and factory 4.10's...
And so will a 2 mile long locomotive, but it may take 10 - 30 miles to get up to speed
At least in my experience living in other parts of the world and driving underpowered vehicles, there are specific reasons for it which do make it doable. In Japan, I owned 3 different sub 70hp vehicles, a 160hp minivan, a 170hp and a 230hp land yacht, and a 700hp toy. The majority of the roads are small and tight, even in the country, and most people rarely drive over 50mph. For most drives, I chose the small, underpowered cars. If I knew I was hitting an open road where people were expected to drive 50+, the tiny cars were terrible. My wife has mentioned how much she missed her little tiny 70hp car. I asked her if she wanted me to get her one here (they are legal for import now). She said no way would she drive that in the states.
I daily drove a Kia n/a diesel manual tranny van in Iraq. I was one of the few that could drive a stick so the honor fell to me. That thing was a turd and I loved beating on it. Completely fine driving around crappy roads where you couldn't go fast anyways and had to dodge goats and stuff. It would do sweet smokey fwd burnouts. We even bought 15" plastic spinner hubcaps for it (but some army douche got cranky about it and eventually made us remove them). We had to drive the length of the runway several times a day as well. I could really stretch the old girl's legs then. It could barely hold just under 100kph in 5th with the engine red lined at like 3500rpm. That thing would suck here.
We have open space, long distances, and straight roads here. Slow crappy cars from around the world would not be suitable for most American drivers.
@Zorba , there are a couple factors that may skew your perceptions compared to what most others experience solely because of where you live. Florida is almost totally flat and basically at sea level. You don't have any significant hills to deal with. And at sea level, normally aspirated IC engines perform at their best. Lucky for you!
Most of the rest of us live in a place that is much less flat and not so close to sea level. The sources I found state a 3% loss in power for every 1,000 ft. of increased elevation. I'm not certain but I don't think it's actually linear. I believe you lose more per 1,000 ft. as you go higher but don't quote me on that.
So if we assume 3%/1,000ft, the folks living at the lower elevations in Colorado, for example, around 5,000ft ASL, are losing 15% of what you have at sea level BEFORE they go up into the mountains. It matters. Most of the paved passes are at 9,000 ft ASL or higher. So you're probably at least 30% below sea level power levels at the top of a 10K pass. Even the mountains in CA get up to significant elevations and the hills are no joke.
What may be perfectly adequate for putting around flat FL, is pretty pathetic when you get some hills and elevation in the mix.
I would love to hear more about a reliable way to add that supercharger @mrblaine mentioned. Is there a recipe that people can follow for adding a supercharger? Are the parts available? Assuming the parts are available, what kind of expense is involved? How much worse is the fuel economy?
Most of the rest of us live in a place that is much less flat and not so close to sea level. The sources I found state a 3% loss in power for every 1,000 ft. of increased elevation. I'm not certain but I don't think it's actually linear. I believe you lose more per 1,000 ft. as you go higher but don't quote me on that.
So if we assume 3%/1,000ft, the folks living at the lower elevations in Colorado, for example, around 5,000ft ASL, are losing 15% of what you have at sea level BEFORE they go up into the mountains. It matters. Most of the paved passes are at 9,000 ft ASL or higher. So you're probably at least 30% below sea level power levels at the top of a 10K pass. Even the mountains in CA get up to significant elevations and the hills are no joke.
What may be perfectly adequate for putting around flat FL, is pretty pathetic when you get some hills and elevation in the mix.
I would love to hear more about a reliable way to add that supercharger @mrblaine mentioned. Is there a recipe that people can follow for adding a supercharger? Are the parts available? Assuming the parts are available, what kind of expense is involved? How much worse is the fuel economy?
for me it was Monarch pass, which used to sit between me and my favorite wheeling spot. From either direction there's 5 miles of sustained 6% grade peaking at over 11,000' where the air only has 67% as much air in it. Kicked my TJ's ass every single time, 3rd gear at 4500 just to maintain 0-5mph below the speed limit.
@Zorba
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/
The Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy Is More Tech-Forward Than You Think
The tech inside this 19th-century conveyance isn't stuck in the 19th century.https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/