Death wobble (don’t see anything loose)

[P_D]

The saga continues. I just left Discount Tire. They stripped the tape weights off and balanced the wheels with clip weights. My DW is worse. I can’t get the Jeep above 40mph without the violent shaking. Before today I only got DW in a sweeping left-hand curve at 43-48mph, and then usually only with a bump. Now it’s happening anytime over 40, with or without a bump.

What should I try next? Is there anything else I can do to diagnose? I’m not afraid of replacing components, but if I’m just guessing at something and then replacing it, I’m afraid I’ll run out of money before I find the fix.

 

[AndyG]

The saga continues. I just left Discount Tire. They stripped the tape weights off and balanced the wheels with clip weights. My DW is worse. I can’t get the Jeep above 40mph without the violent shaking. Before today I only got DW in a sweeping left-hand curve at 43-48mph, and then usually only with a bump. Now it’s happening anytime over 40, with or without a bump.

What should I try next? Is there anything else I can do to diagnose? I’m not afraid of replacing components, but if I’m just guessing at something and then replacing it, I’m afraid I’ll run out of money before I find the fix.

Get someone to slowly turn the steering steering wheel from 10 to 2 and look at every component under the front end as it changes directions.

also have a couple of buddies rock the jeep forward while has the foot break fully depressed and light under the jeep and look at the control arm connections.

I’m hoping the tire store did not make things worse by not balancing the tires as well as they were but you may have to chase that in addition to the other underlying issue if there is one

 

[pagrey]

That suggests the tire shop might not be so great, your wheels might also be bent or a tire out of round (somebody said recently you have to watch them on the balance machine to be sure they are tracking straight I think). Rotating the tires might give you some temporary relief. You might also adjust the front with a bit of toe-out. That normally tests the front upper control arms but until you get it sorted out it might help a bit. Just a bit toe out or even neutral instead of the normal toe in.

 

[AndyG]

That suggests the tire shop might not be so great, your wheels might also be bent or a tire out of round (somebody said recently you have to watch them on the balance machine to be sure they are tracking straight I think). Rotating the tires might give you some temporary relief. You might also adjust the front with a bit of toe-out. That normally tests the front upper control arms but until you get it sorted out it might help a bit. Just a bit toe out or even neutral instead of the normal toe in.

Good post .. good diagnostic tip.

 

[P_D]

Get someone to slowly turn the steering steering wheel from 10 to 2 and look at every component under the front end as it changes directions.

also have a couple of buddies rock the jeep forward while has the foot break fully depressed and light under the jeep and look at the control arm connections.

I’m hoping the tire store did not make things worse by not balancing the tires as well as they were but you may have to chase that in addition to the other underlying issue if there is one

The YouTube video that I posted at the beginning of this thread is me doing just that. I can’t see anything loose or out of order, so I posted it here to see if someone spots something that I have missed.

My helper just left for college, but I’ll try to round up some friends and rock the Jeep. What should I be looking for with the control arms?

 

[AndyG]

The YouTube video that I posted at the beginning of this thread is me doing just that. I can’t see anything loose or out of order, so I posted it here to see if someone spots something that I have missed.

My helper just left for college, but I’ll try to round up some friends and rock the Jeep. What should I be looking for with the control arms?

Good deal

slop in the connections, especially the upper front passenger at the axle, and cracks in the rubber - or the entire bushing moving in the bracket or the bracket failing where welded to the axle. Any significant movement (over 1/8”) would concern me as it will move more under driving forces.

 

[P_D]

Well I’m pretty sure I’ve got cracks in the rubber. Here is a pic of the driver side LCA bushing at the axle. Is that past the threshold for replacement?
All the CA bushings look about like that…

 

[AndyG]

Well I’m pretty sure I’ve got cracks in the rubber. Here is a pic of the driver side LCA bushing at the axle. Is that past the threshold for replacement?
All the CA bushings look about like that…

View attachment 272881

Yes it is probably contributing to the problem and remember they can look perfect but be so soft that they won’t hold the axle in position -

Also if each one allows let’s say 3/16 of movement think about the cumulative amount of movement at every connection

I’m not trying to make you feel like you have to drive a whole new jeep up under it but at least things have some age on them and they have a lot of moving parts and the axles and steering are interconnected and there are a little over 40 bushings in the picture

 

[Sancho]

This is the order i would check things out:

1. Tire pressure and tire balance. Including wheel dents etc...

2. Track bar tightness.. check the passenger side connection. Is the hole wobbled?

3.check steering components for overall tightness.. but also bends and dents.

4. Control arms as mentioned above.

If it isnt tire related.. then i would bet it is due to worn out bushings or bent components.

I have dealt with dw many times over a period of years. Back when the jeep was new 05' to years around 2012 and 2013.

Over several tires.

Each time... it was tire related, possibly trackbar related as well.

 

[P_D]

Also if each one allows let’s say 3/16 of movement think about the cumulative amount of movement at every connection

I’m not trying to make you feel like you have to drive a whole new jeep up under it but at least things have some age on them and they have a lot of moving parts and the axles and steering are interconnected and there are a little over 40 bushings in the picture

Thanks for your patience with me. I’m not the most experienced wrench…

The only things that have been replaced under the Jeep are the coils, shocks, bumpstops, TREs, trackbar, and swaybar links. That leaves ball joints, draglink, 8 control arms, pitman arm on the short list. I’m sure there are more I’m not thinking about.

I’ll try rotating the tires to see if I can get this thing drivable while I try to figure out what’s next.

 

[AndyG]

Thanks for your patience with me. I’m not the most experienced wrench…

The only things that have been replaced under the Jeep are the coils, shocks, bumpstops, TREs, trackbar, and swaybar links. That leaves ball joints, draglink, 8 control arms, pitman arm on the short list. I’m sure there are more I’m not thinking about.

I’ll try rotating the tires to see if I can get this thing drivable while I try to figure out what’s next.

Pm if needed And I’ll send you my phone number where you can text me we will get you through it...I have ran into it a few times on several TJ’s and one Ford truck

 

[Shano1707]

I had the wobble in my TJ when I first bought it. It already had a 2” lift with 10.5R 31’s.. I can’t say exactly what may have stopped the wobble as I spent some serious coin on many upgrades over time but after I rebuilt both my diffs I also replaced all the control arms (my front control arm bushes were done), front and back as well as ball joints. With a lift it pulls your caster back when you need it to be slightly positive (wheel alignment).. If your control arm bushes are worn out that will be a big part of it.. it’s the push/pull not sideways on the bushes in the control arms that over time stretches the rubbers. Other components may factor into it but I personally think replacing the control arm and checking out the caster is what sorted mine..As others have mentioned, Tyre/wheel balance is another player in this game. Check balance/get caster checked out/ replace the control arms/bushes and ball joints/ tie rods etc if you can see/feel any slop in them. It’s just a matter of spending the time (and $) elimination process. No wheel alignment or balance will work if the control arm bushes worn out. Tighten everything up (no slop in steering components) and you should be well on the way to sorting it out. Checking out pinion angles on drive shafts to diffs could be a factor as when it has a lift installed it throws these out as well. I have double cardans in my custom HD drive shafts which alleviates this problem because I’m also running a 5.7LS1 with 4L60E 4 speed auto with XS slip yoke eliminator. I don’t have any wobble and have only just upgraded all my control arms to adjustable with full set of new springs/shocks. Haven’t had it at speed yet to see if anything has changed since all this but getting the wheel alignment/balance done today then take it on the road and put it through it’s paces..

 

[Artsifrtsi]

I always checked for loose components by putting drivers front tire on a ramp, and then moving the steering wheel. It puts more load than on flat ground. Was able to very obviously see the whole vehicle move a lot before the tires would on my old XJ before i swapped the track bar…

 

[P_D]

That suggests the tire shop might not be so great, your wheels might also be bent or a tire out of round (somebody said recently you have to watch them on the balance machine to be sure they are tracking straight I think). Rotating the tires might give you some temporary relief. You might also adjust the front with a bit of toe-out. That normally tests the front upper control arms but until you get it sorted out it might help a bit. Just a bit toe out or even neutral instead of the normal toe in.

Discount Tire rotated the tires in an X pattern, and I just moved the left front tire to the left rear, leaving the right side alone. I test drove it and it’s better. It doesn’t DW every time I go over 40mph, but I’m back to square 1 because it’s still got the shakes in all sweeping left turns at 43mph and above.

If I want to adjust the toe-in more toward neutral, is that disconnecting the tie rod and spinning out the tire rod end a few threads? If so, should I adjust both TREs or can I just adjust one? How many threads should I try?

I hope I’m not wearing out my welcome with all these questions...

 

[AndyG]

Discount Tire rotated the tires in an X pattern, and I just moved the left front tire to the left rear, leaving the right side alone. I test drove it and it’s better. It doesn’t DW every time I go over 40mph, but I’m back to square 1 because it’s still got the shakes in all sweeping left turns at 43mph and above.

If I want to adjust the toe-in more toward neutral, is that disconnecting the tie rod and spinning out the tire rod end a few threads? If so, should I adjust both TREs or can I just adjust one? How many threads should I try?

I hope I’m not wearing out my welcome with all these questions...

Wheel might get off center, but either way works- toe out correcting death wobble is a way to test, maybe it puts pressure on the control arm bushings via road force and seems to reveal you need bushings if toe out stops the wobble. I’m thinking Blaine says 5/8 out, he sure enough knows his trade.

 

[Mazepam]

I had death wobble a few weeks after installing my 2.5 inch lift.

I literally just replaced everything and it went away so something i changed was the culprit I suspect as in most cases it was a bad track bar bushing.

I replaced the track bar, all control arm bushings, all 4 ball joints and all the steering tie rod ends.

I would strongly suggest changing your front control arm bushings especially the uppers and really testing out our ball joints. Also change the drag link tre's as they are also joints.

 

[BonnieMcMurray]

I’m trying to diagnose my death wobble. It’s not a shimmy, it’s a no-kidding, tires chirping, rattle-the-fillings-out-of-your-teeth, violent shake that doesn’t settle until I come to a complete stop.

i have a 3" lift (springs, adjustable trackbar, t-case drop) and 33s. The wobble always seems to happen at 43-48mph in a easy curve to the left. No wobble when curving right.

I have read through pages and pages of death wobble threads on this forum and others and watched lots of YouTube videos and the consensus seems to be that if a Jeep has DW, something somewhere is loose or worn out. I have posted a video to YouTube of me doing the test I have seen several people do:

• I disconnected the steering stabilizer and had my son start the Jeep and move the steering wheel side to side. I looked, listened and felt all the connections in the steering system, and I’m not seeing anything obvious.
• I jacked up the axle and put jack stands under it, lifting the tires off the ground by a couple inches. I put a long pry bar under each tire and lifted and dropped to check for movement in the ball joints.
• I used a large screw driver to pry on the bushings of the control arms.

Can someone with some experience take a look at this video and see if I’m missing something? Is the movement in the control arms too much? Would that cause death wobble?

Just went through the same thing on my 2006 Rubicon. Changed all the tie rods, upper and lower control arms and the DW was still there. What actually cured it was one of two things (or both). My track bar was actually flexing and I put a new HD Rubicon Express one in and then had the caster set to 7 1/2 degrees and it is gone. With the caster set the Jeep drives considerably better than it did before. Prior to all of this I had the tires balance twice to make sure that was not the issue.

 

[williambmac]

I didn't see any mention of this....but how many miles are on your tires? What brand/model tire? Post up some picks of the tread.

 

[BonnieMcMurray]

I’m trying to diagnose my death wobble. It’s not a shimmy, it’s a no-kidding, tires chirping, rattle-the-fillings-out-of-your-teeth, violent shake that doesn’t settle until I come to a complete stop.

i have a 3" lift (springs, adjustable trackbar, t-case drop) and 33s. The wobble always seems to happen at 43-48mph in a easy curve to the left. No wobble when curving right.

I have read through pages and pages of death wobble threads on this forum and others and watched lots of YouTube videos and the consensus seems to be that if a Jeep has DW, something somewhere is loose or worn out. I have posted a video to YouTube of me doing the test I have seen several people do:

• I disconnected the steering stabilizer and had my son start the Jeep and move the steering wheel side to side. I looked, listened and felt all the connections in the steering system, and I’m not seeing anything obvious.
• I jacked up the axle and put jack stands under it, lifting the tires off the ground by a couple inches. I put a long pry bar under each tire and lifted and dropped to check for movement in the ball joints.
• I used a large screw driver to pry on the bushings of the control arms.

Can someone with some experience take a look at this video and see if I’m missing something? Is the movement in the control arms too much? Would that cause death wobble?

I just went through the same thing with my 06 Rubicon 3" lift on 33's. Started with getting the tires balance then having the tie rods replaced as well as the upper and lower control arms and still had the DW. What ended up fixing it was one of two things (or maybe both) I had some actual flex in the track bar so I put a new Rubicon express track bar and then had the caster set from 1 degree to 7 1/2 degrees and the DW are gone. After having the caster set the Jeep drives considerably better. Hopefully you get that taken care of .

 

[DaYooperTransplant]

I just went through the same thing with my 06 Rubicon 3" lift on 33's. Started with getting the tires balance then having the tie rods replaced as well as the upper and lower control arms and still had the DW. What ended up fixing it was one of two things (or maybe both) I had some actual flex in the track bar so I put a new Rubicon express track bar and then had the caster set from 1 degree to 7 1/2 degrees and the DW are gone. After having the caster set the Jeep drives considerably better. Hopefully you get that taken care of .

Ooooh! Bonnie McMurray. Pitter Patter...