Do I need to strengthen my engine for a supercharger?

[mrblaine]

Hey now, HEY NOW,

What's with the the think it through- time and material approach ???
Don't you believe a complete LS swap can be accomplished cheaper than setting up a couple of R&Ps ?

Why I think I heard of complete junk yard engine ,trans, T-case, PCM. take outs with 40 miles on them and a 1yr. warranty and a case of beer for $300.00 bucks.
And your trailer park neighbor can wire it and have everything functioning and emissions legal in a afternoon !

Seriously mrblaine I appreciate you sir!

I've chatted with several buddies who have attended the specialized events where lots of modified rigs show up. Guess which ones don't run right, over heat, won't shift correctly, have electric fan problems, burnt up steering pump problems, and are always being worked on trail side? Yep, all the folks with their bullshit backyard LS swaps.

 

[mrblaine]

And then these shitboxes end up on Facebook Marketplace for some poor, unknown sole to end up buying (not knowing what a hack job it was done when the V8 was swapped in), only to realize they didn't get a "good deal", they got a huge fucking problem.

Worse is the recommendation regarding any mechanical issue to "just LS swap it". There was literally a guy who blew up his t-case when the front DC froze like they do and wanted to know how to solve the problem and more than a few told him to just LS swap it.

 

[Chris]

Worse is the recommendation regarding any mechanical issue to "just LS swap it". There was literally a guy who blew up his t-case when the front DC froze like they do and wanted to know how to solve the problem and more than a few told him to just LS swap it.

Yep, I've seen that recommendation more than a few times and always roll my eyes. Whenever I mention that doing it "right" will cost upwards of 20k in most cases, some moron will always chime in and say, "I did mine for $8000".

Yeah, sure you did. And it probably is a shitty junk yard swap with a million and one things that conveniently "don't work".

 

[ColoJeep]

Yep, I've seen that recommendation more than a few times and always roll my eyes. Whenever I mention that doing it "right" will cost upwards of 20k in most cases, some moron will always chime in and say, "I did mine for $8000".

Yeah, sure you did. And it probably is a shitty junk yard swap with a million and one things that conveniently "don't work".

Never let the facts get in the way of the narrative.

 

[Apparition]

Yep, I've seen that recommendation more than a few times and always roll my eyes. Whenever I mention that doing it "right" will cost upwards of 20k in most cases, some moron will always chime in and say, "I did mine for $8000".

Yeah, sure you did. And it probably is a shitty junk yard swap with a million and one things that conveniently "don't work".

hey @Chris LS swap it

 

[sierradmax]

@Chris What made you stray away from a M.P. install?

 

[Chris]

@Chris What made you stray away from a M.P. install?

See my response in post number 54 in this thread:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...e-for-a-supercharger.46896/page-3#post-803575
Like I said, you can fix those issues, but you're going to be into that Magnum Powers supercharger for well over $7000 before you figure everything out. At that point, is it ultimately worth it?

It's still cheaper than a V8, but you could build one hell of a nice turbo setup for less money that would still allow you to use the factory cooling system and IMHO be a better solution.

 

[sierradmax]

Sorry, I glanced over that thread. I still have one of Charles' first kits on a shelf. And yes, I think $2,000 (unaccounted) is a modest figure to get his "kit" working properly. Cooling & the correct tune seem to be the major hurdles. While I've been in contact with Charles, I've developed a stronger desire to keep it on the shelf... I've yet to stumble upon a successful install.

 

[Chris]

Sorry, I glanced over that thread. I still have one of Charles' first kits on a shelf. And yes, I think $2,000 (unaccounted) is a modest figure to get his "kit" working properly. Cooling & the correct tune seem to be the major hurdles. While I've been in contact with Charles, I've developed a stronger desire to keep it on the shelf... I've yet to stumble upon a successful install.

@Dave Kishpaugh has a successful install on his personal TJ.

If you're dead set on forced induction, I'd honestly sell it and go the turbo route.

 

[Apparition]

@Dave Kishpaugh has a successful install on his personal TJ.

If you're dead set on forced induction, I'd honestly sell it and go the turbo route.

You guys should develop a kit

 

[NashvilleTJ]

It’s unfortunate that Kenne Bell no longer makes their super charger kit for the TJ. I ran one for years, and never had an issue. Lots of power, torque right off of idle, dead nuts reliable, and you only knew it was there when you put your foot into it. One of the most reliable rigs I’ve ever driven.

But the key was not their hardware, it was their tune - which was spot on right out of the can.

In terms of boost, I ran about 6. Liquid to air intercooler. KB had a setup which would run 8, but they did not recommend running it with with cats in place.

But, I’ve heard countless stories about folks trying to piece together a supercharger on the I6, only to have it be an undrivable nightmare. Same result as doing a half-assed LS swap.

In my experience, for a crawler you can’t compare the torque curve of a properly setup supercharger to that of a turbo, or of a centrifugal super charger, for that matter.

Now I run a half-assed hemi swap...

 

[Mike_H]

I dunno about a turbo swap being all that great in a rock crawler...I have an Audi with the 2.0TFSI. it's a great engine. Lots of power, good economy, fun to drive. One thing it is not is torquey at low RPM. More than once, I've pulled out of an intersection, maybe with less distance to oncoming traffic than I should, and felt the lag. It's an absolute dog before that turbo spools. Then when it does, go baby go. I can't imagine that kind of on/off power delivery would be good off road. Seems like a recipe to lose traction suddenly and break shit.

Supercharger for me...in this application if you gotta have FAI. Really, I think the best solution is a stroker, but that has its own issues.

 

[Caledonian]

I dunno about a turbo swap being all that great in a rock crawler...I have an Audi with the 2.0TFSI. it's a great engine. Lots of power, good economy, fun to drive. One thing it is not is torquey at low RPM. More than once, I've pulled out of an intersection, maybe with less distance to oncoming traffic than I should, and felt the lag. It's an absolute dog before that turbo spools. Then when it does, go baby go. I can't imagine that kind of on/off power delivery would be good off road. Seems like a recipe to lose traction suddenly and break shit.

Supercharger for me...in this application if you gotta have FAI. Really, I think the best solution is a stroker, but that has its own issues.

How a turbo based system responds these days depends on many factors, most now under the control of the manufacturer..

The old days of waiting for the turbo spool up then an almighty surge at the top end are mostly long gone..

However fundamental trade offs still exist and it’s the manufacturers choice on his priorities..

Techniques like twin scroll, variable geometry, bi-turbo, air and electric motor augmentation are now used to give good low end performance and good mid range / top end capabilities.

However these techniques largely place them beyond after market simple bolt on kits.

The marriage of these and other engine techniques allied to super clever auto boxes are extremely capable..the TJ comes from a much earlier distant galaxy..

I’ve twiddled with lots of BMW turbo based engines , my little Z4 makes 300 bhp (crank) and 350 ft lb torque from 2 litre.with 90% torque from 2700 to 5400 rpm .married to an 8 speed auto box with all sort of tricks...just need to work out how to fit it to a TJ

 

[mrblaine]

I’ve twiddled with lots of BMW turbo based engines , my little Z4 makes 300 bhp (crank) and 350 ft lb torque from 2 litre.with 90% torque from 2700 to 5400 rpm .married to an 8 speed auto box with all sort of tricks...just need to work out how to fit it to a TJ

Fitting is easy, affording it to fit not so much.

 

[pc1p]

Cost and if one does actual realistic costs, that swap never pencils out unless 20 grand for a motor swap makes sense to anyone.

I've got a $20 bet that my V8 + auto swap comes in at less than $5500 (including the $1400 purchase price)

Most well-documented LS swaps in YJ and TJ's that I've seen range from $4300-5500, assuming the owner does the work themselves. I estimated the high-end on my swap simply due to the fact that Mopar swaps generally cost more $$ and because I need some 05-06 TJ parts to keep it emissions compliant.

 

[mrblaine]

I've got a $20 bet that my V8 + auto swap comes in at less than $5500 (including the $1400 purchase price)

Most well-documented LS swaps in YJ and TJ's that I've seen range from $4300-5500, assuming the owner does the work themselves. I estimated the high-end on my swap simply due to the fact that Mopar swaps generally cost more $$ and because I need some 05-06 TJ parts to keep it emissions compliant.

I won't swap in a 1400 dollar part.

 

[pc1p]

Yep, I've seen that recommendation more than a few times and always roll my eyes. Whenever I mention that doing it "right" will cost upwards of 20k in most cases, some moron will always chime in and say, "I did mine for $8000".

Yeah, sure you did. And it probably is a shitty junk yard swap with a million and one things that conveniently "don't work".

Next time they have Coffee & Crawlers in person, we should take a trip down - there are two people with LS swapped rigs that have driven across to almost every trail in the Western US (one an LJ, one an early JKU). The LJ has over 40,000 miles on his LS swap by now. His build sheet was on the AZVJC forum for a long time, though I'm not finding it now (I'll keep looking). There was a 3rd guy that I spoke with who put a 6.0L in his Cherokee Chief, though I know he had a handful of issues (granted his wasn't stock).

I won't swap in a 1400 dollar part.

From a shop perspective that's probably appropriate, but from a DIY build there is hardly a reason not to trust a salvage take-out with warranty - especially if you can inspect it prior to purchasing. There will always be the exceptions but I've seen too many reliable junkyard pulls to be worried about them. This isn't to say I'd drop a 280k mile 5.3L into a TJ and slap on a Chinese-Choo-Choo from eBay and expect good results. Come to think of it, I can't think of a GM or Mopar motor I've pulled from a reliable (and honest!) salvage yard in the past decade that had an issue. Modern EFi and in particular modern oils have made the "Junkyard Lotto" much less risky IMO...

The 4L60E on the other hand, well...