Does control arm bushing composition affect ride quality or NVH?

Chris said:
Oh yes, perhaps I should write down a list of questions to ask him when I go pick it up and pay him. That way I'm prepared at least... haha.
Click to expand...

I started it for you with questions posted above. Some of these could probably be combined and written better to save him some time.

1) Is Dave implying in this last statement that he would use synergy on both ends of a CA if it wasn't so difficult to get a bolt in the bracket because they self-center?
2) Is Dave using the stock frame side mount on his front track bars?
3) Is he using the Synergy joints for the frame side of the front TB? (Or the axle or both)
4) I'll ask him if he's using the stock frame mount in the front, or a doubles shear.
5) What does he use for the front upper CA on the axle?
Dave:
Synergy dual durometer if I make the track bar. I use moog k7252 bushings if I use an aftermarket bar and change them as soon as it comes out of the box.
Click to expand...
6) Why does he use the Moog instead of Synergy in an aftermarket bar?
7) What is his opinion on replacing the Clevite bushing with a DDB in a Moog front trackbar. Or factory rear trackbar?
8) I would also like to know his opinion of the Synergy trackbars and control arms, as a bolt on option, for someone like myself who can't get to Oregon to have him do a custom job.
9) In short, just have him write up a comparison of pro and cons regarding how the DDB compares to JJ and Clevite.

Maybe these could be divided up into trackbar questions and control arm questions too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMT and Chris
Fargo said:
I'm not so sure you are. At this point, I don't even know what questions to ask.

It would be greatly appreciated if you could ask him some of the questions that have just been brought up here. Maybe you can make list of questions right here in this thread and the rest of us can help you add to them. Maybe together we can assemble a list of 'intelligent' questions for him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had intended to ask him some questions when I go pick up my TJ, and I was hoping to organize them into a list that wasn't too long, but enough questions to answer some of this stuff that's been asked.

He's super friendly and easy to talk to, I just feel bad taking up to much of his time since he's always got so many Jeeps there he's working on. But, I guess since I'm paying him $5000, it's not like I'm taking his time for free!
 
Fargo said:
I made some small edits and additions above. I'll let you take it from here. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I'll make a list and edit them as well as I can. No idea when he'll be done with my TJ. He said a month, but I suspect it will be more like 2 months. That guy is swamped!
 
I'm still a little confused on why he used the DDB on one end and JJ on the other. I understand the issue with getting bolts in due to self centering with a DDB on both ends, but why not just use JJ on both ends then. You would have that much less NVH if the JJ is actually softer. What did he mean by saying he used them to "keep the arm upright"
 
Fargo said:
..
, but why not just use JJ on both ends then. You would have that much less NVH if the JJ is actually softer.
Click to expand...
I wonder where Dave falls on whether or not control arm bushings/joints have a meaningful contribution to the percievable NVH.

Fargo said:
What did he mean by saying he used them to "keep the arm upright"
Click to expand...

It sounds like Dave's arms are bent. A bushing will keep that bent arm from flopping to one side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
jjvw said:
I wonder where Dave falls on whether or not control arm bushings/joints have a meaningful contribution to the percievable NVH.
Click to expand...

Good question


jjvw said:
It sounds like Dave's arms are bent. A bushing will keep that bent arm from flopping to one side.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what the track bar is for? I don't see others worried about this. Its hard to believe Dave does it just for installation purposes.
 
jjvw said:
It sounds like Dave's arms are bent. A bushing will keep that bent arm from flopping to one side.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, is there any advantage to a bent arm over a straight one? Something I was always curious about. Most of the arms I see are straight.
 
Fargo said:
....

Isn't that what the track bar is for? I don't see others worried about this. Its hard to believe Dave does it just for installation purposes.
Click to expand...

Different kind of flop. Look at the pics of my arms with Johnny Joints. They will roll from side to side over time. The arms are straight, so there is no orientation to maintain. If those arms were bent, they might need to be held in position with a bushing that will return to center.
 
Chris said:
I don't think Dave does anything just because... it would be interesting to know what the reason is.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm feeling completely confused now. Everything that was once common knowledge has be flipped on its head. So now I question everything from the other perspective. It'll be interesting to hear what ever information he gives you.
 
jjvw said:
Different kind of flop. Look at the pics of my arms with Johnny Joints. They will roll from side to side over time. The arms are straight, so there is no orientation to maintain. If those arms were bent, they might need to be held in position with a bushing that will return to center.
Click to expand...

Ohh, I got you. The key word was roll. Then I got the picture. That might be the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjvw
Chris said:
Speaking of which, is there any advantage to a bent arm over a straight one? Something I was always curious about. Most of the arms I see are straight.
Click to expand...
Clearance. Either for added ground clearance or clearing something else in the vehicle. Think about Jerry's long arm pic with the rocks. An argument against bent arms would be the decreased strength, if that actually matters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
Fargo said:
Yeah, I'm feeling completely confused now. Everything that was once common knowledge has be flipped on its head. So now I question everything from the other perspective. It'll be interesting to hear what ever information he gives you.
Click to expand...

I guess it just goes to show you that there is no "one" solution to everything, and that perhaps sometimes the best solution is actually a mixing and matching of components. Some of us (I'm even guilty of this too) are so sold on brand names that we can easily be blindsided.
 
jjvw said:
Clearance. Either for added ground clearance or clearing something else in the vehicle. Think about Jerry's long arm pic with the rocks. An argument against bent arms would be the decreased strength, if that actually matters.
Click to expand...
I can also see where a bent arm could negatively impact up travel. My Savvy mid arms would lose quite a bit of up if the lowers were bent.
 
I'm surprised the Synergy joints have enough return to center strength to center a JJ. Interesting! While the JJ half bushings do feel hard, they will deform.
20160705_101448.jpg
 
Top Bottom
Back