DarkKn1ght
Member
I don't personally have experience with them but when I was ordering my lift kit I was talking to Kolak about it and he said they are useless on heavy Jeeps.
OP
That's kinda what I've been hearing and reading. No real progressive springs out there for TJ's and the dual rates don't work the way you think they do.
OP
This whole suspension thing is making me crazy, Chris. I've looked at OME, BDS, Savvy / Currie, Metalcloak, JKS Jspec and some of the lesser but still reputable lifts out there. The problem is pretty simple, and seems like it should have a relatively simple solution.
I have a light TJ SE. It's going to get a little heavier, but not much, as I add some gear to it. The roads that I travel on range from wash board gravel to dirt skid roads. I'm not a fast mover or a rock crawler, and never will be as it's not my style. But, I do need more suspension travel and more lift height. The lower spring perches are polished off from bottoming out the suspension and my gas tank skid has a bunch of scrape marks on it from dragging over some of the cuts, berms and crud. The little stock SE is going where I ask it to in fine style, but I'm beating it in the process. I really don't like doing that. I really think that all I need is 31x10.50's and a 2" lift. I very well could be lying to myself.
Then I start thinking that a winch would be nice to have sometimes, and bumpers, and an extra 5 gallons of gas, and more water, and, and and....I should just pack up the Suburban. So then I go back to keep it simple and light. But I still drag the gas tank skid and bottom out the suspension....
See what I have going on?
I have a light TJ SE. It's going to get a little heavier, but not much, as I add some gear to it. The roads that I travel on range from wash board gravel to dirt skid roads. I'm not a fast mover or a rock crawler, and never will be as it's not my style. But, I do need more suspension travel and more lift height. The lower spring perches are polished off from bottoming out the suspension and my gas tank skid has a bunch of scrape marks on it from dragging over some of the cuts, berms and crud. The little stock SE is going where I ask it to in fine style, but I'm beating it in the process. I really don't like doing that. I really think that all I need is 31x10.50's and a 2" lift. I very well could be lying to myself.
Then I start thinking that a winch would be nice to have sometimes, and bumpers, and an extra 5 gallons of gas, and more water, and, and and....I should just pack up the Suburban. So then I go back to keep it simple and light. But I still drag the gas tank skid and bottom out the suspension....
See what I have going on?
Perhaps you're in the same dilemma I was in. I bought my Rubicon thinking 31" tires would be enough paired with a 2.5" lift. Yeah, that lasted a month before I said nope, I need a 4" lift now and 33" tires. I wish I had just gone with the 4" lift in the first place since the 2.5" is indeed a nice lift, but I simply wanted more clearance. I don't do lots of rock crawling either, I simply wanted more lift for the shear fact that it would provide more clearance.
I will say that if I were going to do a 2.5" lift OME is the way I would go. If you wanted a bigger lift I would go with a Savvy or Currie lift if your budget will allow it. Alternatively, if your budget won't allow the Currie or Savvy and you need 4" I personally have heard a lot of good things about the Zone 4.25" lift.
OP
Yah, that's what I 'm afraid of as well. Put a bunch of money in a good 2 -2 1/2 inch lift and 31 inch tires and decide the jeep needs 33's and a bigger lift. Then I'm talking axles, gears, lockers, tummy tuck, a transmission... If I'm going there, then a chevy v-8 would be a nice feature.
Lots of positive reviews of the zone combo lift. And it's about $200 cheaper, all in, than the Jspec with the jks body lift and brown dog mml. The jspec is seeming to take less bump stop all the way around though and looks more balanced for suspension travel. I go bigger than the 31's and it just opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.
I do see your point though, and it's valid.
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Lots of positive reviews of the zone combo lift. And it's about $200 cheaper, all in, than the Jspec with the jks body lift and brown dog mml. The jspec is seeming to take less bump stop all the way around though and looks more balanced for suspension travel. I go bigger than the 31's and it just opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.
I do see your point though, and it's valid.
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Coming from someone who has been in your shoes, I have to tell you this: Go with the best of the best from the start and think big. It's so common for us Wrangler owners to assume that a small lift will be enough, but it never, ever is. We always want to go bigger so my suggestion is not to make the mistake I made and think about what the biggest size tire and lift you would want on your rig is. For me it was a 33" and I should have just done that to begin with and saved myself so much time and money.
Once I had the 31" tires on and the 2.5" lift it looked really good, but it simply wasn't enough to satisfy me.
DarkKn1ght
Member
My thoughts on 2.5" not being enough is you can always buy Metalcloak fenders and do a low center of gravity build. It wasn't really an option on my old WJ but on a TJ it is very viable.
05LJ
TJ Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2015
- Messages
- 110
A small lift on your jeep is like a small boob job on your woman. It works for awhile.....................
I've considered the metal cloak dual rate 3.5 front coils to replace the 3"zone ones after adding a winch and bumpers, but only to give me that 1/2" back.
I don't want to go a true 4" because I still drive this 80mph on the hi way and I want to keep it that way. If I want a dedicated crawler I'll buy a crunchy piece and Dana 60 it. But this has to be good everywhere. I think many of you are in the same position but desire more offroad capable rig. Trouble is..now you compromise the on road. Been there...done that...made a rig a horrible road ride.
I'd love some GOOD 3.5" front coils though..if someone makes them
I don't want to go a true 4" because I still drive this 80mph on the hi way and I want to keep it that way. If I want a dedicated crawler I'll buy a crunchy piece and Dana 60 it. But this has to be good everywhere. I think many of you are in the same position but desire more offroad capable rig. Trouble is..now you compromise the on road. Been there...done that...made a rig a horrible road ride.
I'd love some GOOD 3.5" front coils though..if someone makes them
I'm about to go from 2.5" to 4". What happens on the highway at 80mph? I'm assuming the rig is just a lot more squirrelly (for lack of a better word)?
It's been MY experience (YMMV)..........
Ok, did you read your kids "if you give a pig a pancake" ?
Story about the snowball effect. If you go taller springs then generally you go larger tire, you go deeper gearing, you limit speed...etc.
I say you as in anyone...
IMHO once you go 35s you've crossed that threshold of vertical balance due to spring requirements and gearing, that makes the TJ superior to all other Jeeps (and he'll all 4x4s) for on road handling AND off road capability. Again..JUST my opinion and preference. 35s are ideal for the TJ offroad and I wish I had them, until I reach the trailhead and shift back into 2wd and set the cruise at 80 on the hi way home
It makes perfect sense. I'm sticking with 33"s for good I decided. I love the way my Wrangler handles on-road and off-road right now the way it sits, the only difference I plan to make is the 4" lift instead of the 2.5" lift I currently have.
I also have Duratrac tires though which have some pretty good on-road manners. I regularly do 200+ mile trips and no complaints whatsoever.
OP
Thanks for the input, folks, I appreciate it a bunch. Laughed over the breast augmentation reference... and realized how true that really is. I have a big busted mistress already though. My 3/4 ton Suburban with the 454 and the One Ton running gear is already bigger than my little SE is ever going to get no matter what I do to her, though. Where size matters, I've got that covered. Surprisingly, the difference in gas mileage is not enough to make a difference in decision making. Those four angry squirrels put out 120 HP and 140 ft / lb torque. The tuned Vortec 454 puts out 460 hp and 610 ft / lb torque. There is about 2 mpg difference between the two the way I drive them.
So, it boils down to what am I going to use each for? And what is the best way to set each up? The Sub is good to go. If I need time in the field, distance traveled without resupply and weight carrying capacity, it's a no brainer. The Sub wins hands down. If I need maneuverability in the field, rough country access and minimal impact on the trails the TJ wins hands down.
So, how do I maximize the TJ's inherent superiority? In other words how do I increase it's capabilities in the areas it already does better in? That means better traction, better articulation, lower ground loading, lighter weight, better clearance under, over, and around the rig.
From what I'm reading and hearing dual rate and progressive springs may not be the way to accomplish that. The dual rate Metalcloak springs run the soft part of the spring at full coil bind most of the time. That lower spring rate portion comes into play during high articulation to keep the springs seated. No one makes a spring with a progressive rate right know, at least to my knowledge, for the TJ. JKS has a new Jspec 2" lift kit with dual rate springs that is pretty complete but there is not a lot of information out there from the real world yet. JKS does have a good reputation though for doing it right and having good quality. The biggest tire that I'll ever run on the SE is a 33". Even that is pushing it. There is just to much that would have to be changed and upgraded to make anything bigger than a 33" tire work reliably. The cost of doing that tells me to sell the SE and get a Rubicon to modify.
The fog of indecision is still there...
Thanks for putting up with my thinking on paper stream of thought.
So, it boils down to what am I going to use each for? And what is the best way to set each up? The Sub is good to go. If I need time in the field, distance traveled without resupply and weight carrying capacity, it's a no brainer. The Sub wins hands down. If I need maneuverability in the field, rough country access and minimal impact on the trails the TJ wins hands down.
So, how do I maximize the TJ's inherent superiority? In other words how do I increase it's capabilities in the areas it already does better in? That means better traction, better articulation, lower ground loading, lighter weight, better clearance under, over, and around the rig.
From what I'm reading and hearing dual rate and progressive springs may not be the way to accomplish that. The dual rate Metalcloak springs run the soft part of the spring at full coil bind most of the time. That lower spring rate portion comes into play during high articulation to keep the springs seated. No one makes a spring with a progressive rate right know, at least to my knowledge, for the TJ. JKS has a new Jspec 2" lift kit with dual rate springs that is pretty complete but there is not a lot of information out there from the real world yet. JKS does have a good reputation though for doing it right and having good quality. The biggest tire that I'll ever run on the SE is a 33". Even that is pushing it. There is just to much that would have to be changed and upgraded to make anything bigger than a 33" tire work reliably. The cost of doing that tells me to sell the SE and get a Rubicon to modify.
The fog of indecision is still there...
Thanks for putting up with my thinking on paper stream of thought.
Ultimately I think it's going to come down to preference. There's absolutely no 'right way' to build a TJ and I can't stress that enough. It's like the saying goes, "There's more than one way to skin a cat.". It's so true too!
You'll find some people who prefer this lift while others prefer that one. I can tell you with my experience Currie and all the guys involved in that I know first hand that they make hands down one of the best lift kits for a TJ out there, no question about it. It is indeed pricey (same price as the Metalcloak) but it's worth every penny and then some.
You're ultimately going to have to decide what size tires you want to run and that is going to dictate how much lift you need. You can get by running 33" tires on a 2.5" suspension lift with 1.25" body lift and have more than enough clearance for the tires and do wonderful off road.
Heck, you can barely even lift it at all, do a highline conversion and probably run 35" tires with just a 2.5" suspension lift. However, you have to remember that with the highline conversion you don't gain any ground clearance, just tire clearance (which for me isn't enough).
I don't think anyone can tell you what the right path is, but I can tell you that if you choose a reputable lift you'll be so much better off, and you'll have infinite possibilities for what you want to do.
Talk to @Jerry Bransford, he runs the 4" Currie short arm lift and he's said many a time that he prefers it versus some of the more extreme long arm lifts.
You'll find some people who prefer this lift while others prefer that one. I can tell you with my experience Currie and all the guys involved in that I know first hand that they make hands down one of the best lift kits for a TJ out there, no question about it. It is indeed pricey (same price as the Metalcloak) but it's worth every penny and then some.
You're ultimately going to have to decide what size tires you want to run and that is going to dictate how much lift you need. You can get by running 33" tires on a 2.5" suspension lift with 1.25" body lift and have more than enough clearance for the tires and do wonderful off road.
Heck, you can barely even lift it at all, do a highline conversion and probably run 35" tires with just a 2.5" suspension lift. However, you have to remember that with the highline conversion you don't gain any ground clearance, just tire clearance (which for me isn't enough).
I don't think anyone can tell you what the right path is, but I can tell you that if you choose a reputable lift you'll be so much better off, and you'll have infinite possibilities for what you want to do.
Talk to @Jerry Bransford, he runs the 4" Currie short arm lift and he's said many a time that he prefers it versus some of the more extreme long arm lifts.
John Carmony
TJ Enthusiast
I've heard some stories on the SE's going over 3" and 33's... They tend to bog down a bit. I saw a thread somewhere about a dude who had SE with with 33's and 3" lift (maybe 4) said he could pull his off road trailer down interstate at 70 .... I don't believe it but .. Perhaps it is possible. I have an SE and I'm thinking 2.5" lift with max 32's. I just bought some 31's MT and I'd thinking of lift 2-2.5 and leaving it. But I don't intend on brutalizing my jeep either. I have never been big on doing things just to say I done it. And my personal favorite, people who dump thousands in their offroader and never go offroad... It's the 'look' they are after. The rock crawlers around here specifically build trails, or create trails just to crawl them, when there is a perfectly decent road around it. I don't understand this. But hey if it makes them happy.
And for those who would say, "It's about pushing my machine to it's limits', great I am happy for you, glad you can afford it.
And for those who would say, "It's about pushing my machine to it's limits', great I am happy for you, glad you can afford it.
Oh wait... Is an SE a 2.5 liter? If so... Shit, that's going to be hurting for power with 33" tires and too much weight... At least I would think so.
John Carmony
TJ Enthusiast
Yes SE is a 4 banger, he def will be hurting for power with 33's. But .. At 31" on mine, it still seems fine. You might be hurting at top end, but it just might be feasible, as long as you don't expect 70mph on interstate.
Ahhh, I didn't know!
I would think you could run 33" tires and re-gear it and probably be pretty fine. The top-end might suck, but even in my 4.0 the top end is scary once you get anything over 70 mph. These TJs have the aerodynamics of a barn driving sideways down the highway, they simply aren't meant for high speeds (which is fine with me!).