Factor 55 flat link vs standard winch hook

[jjvw]

Be careful with your thimble and the hawse fairlead. If the hawse is aluminum and you suck the thimble through the opening, you will gouge the hawse and create the potential to tear up the rope. Oddly enough, Factor 55 creates this scenario. It's a terribly unsafe product on several fronts.

 

[Drizit]

View attachment 78804

View attachment 78805

FYI, factor 55 does make a thimble that attaches in this way with no other metal parts on the rope.

Does this improve your opinion of the product?

I really do wish they made an ultra hook in this style.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Sundowner]

Be careful with your thimble and the hawse fairlead. If the hawse is aluminum and you suck the thimble through the opening, you will gouge the hawse and create the potential to tear up the rope. Oddly enough, Factor 55 creates this scenario. It's a terribly unsafe product on several fronts.

Like this, as found on the ARB Tacoma a year or two ago?

Pictured: Totally not kidding about that.

 

[Sundowner]

Does this improve your opinion of the product?

No.

 

[jjvw]

FYI, factor 55 does make a thimble that attaches in this way with no other metal parts on the rope. View attachment 78811View attachment 78812

Does this improve your opinion of the product?

I really do wish they made an ultra hook in this style.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

Not when the Safety Thimble costs less and looks like it weighs less. Both of those reasons rule out the ultra hook in any configuration, as well. Is a hook needed anymore?
https://tacticalrecoveryequipment.com/product/safety-thimble-ii-black/

 

[Rob5589]

TRE safety thimble. Look at its design and you'll see why it is significantly better.

 

[Drizit]

No.

Please elaborate

Not when the Safety Thimble costs less and looks like it weighs less. Both of those reasons rule out the ultra hook in any configuration, as well. Is a hook needed anymore?
https://tacticalrecoveryequipment.com/product/safety-thimble-ii-black/

Given the hook is overkill and they only make it as an add on to a thimble. However I like options, and honestly is 1 or 2lbs ether way that big a difference on the jeep? In it's current configuration I'd never go near it though.

The splicer is the same price though.

TRE safety thimble. Look at its design and you'll see why it is significantly better.

Are you referring to the ultra hook? If so I totally agree.

If you are referring to the splicer I don't see it. My masterpull rope has a similar design to the safety thimble, however I've never liked how that section of rope around the end of the hook is always exposed to the sun. I like the splicer because if you point the opening down the rope isn't exposed to sunlight if the winch has a cover.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[jjvw]

..Given the hook is overkill and they only make it as an add on to a thimble. However I like options, , and honestly is 1 or 2lbs ether way that big a difference on the jeep? In it's current configuration I'd never go near it though.

The consideration of weight isn't about fuel economy. A lighter projectile is a less dangerous one.

That aside, the Ultrahook feels like a less effective hook and a less effective shackle (or thimble) with all the bulky clutter around it.

As far as options for attachment, between a selection of hard and soft shackles where would a hook ever become the preferred connection?

..., however I've never liked how that section of rope around the end of the hook is always exposed to the sun. I like the splicer because if you point the opening down the rope isn't exposed to sunlight if the winch has a cover.

...

Has UV exposure shown to be an issue on our synthetic winch ropes? If not, then we can bring weight and safety back into the considerations.

I'll admit that I'm trying to keep any dislike of Factor 55 out of my reasoning. The Safety Thimble has been around for a long time. F55 has been selling unsafe designs for about as long, but only recently began copying the Safety Thimble. Good for them for finally figuring it out?

 

[Sundowner]

Has UV exposure shown to be an issue on our synthetic winch ropes? If not, then we can bring weight and safety back into the considerations.

UV isn't much of a consideration with these lines; they live happily for years in marine environments.

I'll admit that I'm trying to keep any dislike of Factor 55 out of my reasoning. The Safety Thimble has been around for a long time. F55 has been selling unsafe designs for about as long, but only recently began copying the Safety Thimble. Good for them for finally figuring it out?

Good for them for finally ripping off the safety thimble, you mean? That's one of the biggest reasons that I don't bother to keep my dislike for them at bay; the other is that they make shit like this:

Pictured: Reasons #2, 3, 4 and probably 5 if I look hard enough.

Three useless connections at once; nicely done!

Please elaborate

Factor 55 sells multiple products that are dangerous through violation of the most basic rule of recovery: least number of connections, as already mentioned. Their having copied and altered an existing, safe product - the safety thimble - only prompts further disapproval and scorn from me.

And wow... I made it through a Factor 55 post without going off the deep end! I'm all grown up now!

 

[Mike_H]

So, my current connection looks like this

And since we're talking about safety thimbles...The question I have it this. When I change to the safety thimble, do I cut the rope and resplice, or is the rope resilient enough to pull the strands apart, then resplice? How far back to you splice? IIRC, with the dock lines I made, 4 "tucks" of each strand were enough. That was standard Poly rope though, not fancy Dynema winch line.

 

[Sundowner]

When I change to the safety thimble, do I cut the rope and resplice, or is the rope resilient enough to pull the strands apart, then resplice? How far back to you splice? IIRC, with the dock lines I made, 4 "tucks" of each strand were enough. That was standard Poly rope though, not fancy Dynema winch line.

You will cut the old connection out entirely and use a Long Bury splice on the safety thimble; instructions for the bury length and taper are easily found online (along with some helpful videos). When the splice is complete, be sure to set it with the winch and a conveniently-immovable object; those instructions are also easily found online.

I actually have a couple of these to do in a week or so; if I have time and think to do so, I'll take a couple of photos.

 

[jjvw]

I would think the existing splice could be opened up without cutting anything.

 

[Mike_H]

You will cut the old connection out entirely and use a Long Bury splice on the safety thimble; instructions for the bury length and taper are easily found online (along with some helpful videos). When the splice is complete, be sure to set it with the winch and a conveniently-immovable object; those instructions are also easily found online.

I actually have a couple of these to do in a week or so; if I have time and think to do so, I'll take a couple of photos.

Thanks. I've made dock lines for my boat. Familiar with the splicing...I'll look up the length.

 

[Sundowner]

Thanks. I've made dock lines for my boat. Familiar with the splicing...I'll look up the length.

You know how to splice? Great, that makes this much simpler:

I think Samson suggests 72 times the diameter, which is 3.5 fids, and a taper on alternating fifth and sixth pairs; look that info up to verify it, because it might be a fever dream on my part. Fids are handy for measuring, but you don't need one on Dyneema; cut the taper and then wrap it with tape, spiraling towards the point, and use that as your fid. Bury the taper into the core of the line further than you think you need, cinch the eye tight around the thimble, pull the tape, strip the taper into the core, milk the splice down, and set it HARD; like, go rig a strap around a telephone pole and use the winch to slowly build tension on the splice. Once it's set, that's it; you're basically done. If you run chafing gear on the line, either install it BEFORE you splice, or pull the entire line and slide it on from the rear; if you run it from the rear with the line off the spool, it's a good time to wash the line and fluff it up a bit before you respool it. You can also run a separate sleeve of chafe guard around the line at the spool to keep the heat off the line...or just wrap the spool itself. It's a good time to shorten your line, too, if need be.

 

[Sundowner]

I would think the existing splice could be opened up without cutting anything.

Just saw this. Yes, sometimes the splice can be opened up; if it's been stitched it gets more difficult, and if a Brummel has been used it can be kind of a pain...so I look at the loss of three feet of rope as entirely acceptable if it helps me get done faster and easier. I've also seen that the end of the rope at the thimble seems to take the majority of the abrasion and wear, so I don't mind losing that piece.

 

[jjvw]

UV isn't much of a consideration with these lines; they live happily for years in marine environments.

To add, if these ropes were UV sensitive in a meaningful way then we ought to be keeping the entire rope covered from head to toe. And if they were UV sensitive in a meaningful way, there are lighter, less bulky methods to shield the exposed thimble section than buildng an aluminum cover into the piece.

Good for them for finally ripping off the safety thimble, you mean? That's one of the biggest reasons that I don't bother to keep my dislike for them at bay; the other is that they make shit like this:

Pictured: Reasons #2, 3, 4 and probably 5 if I look hard enough.

View attachment 78849


Three useless connections at once; nicely done!



Factor 55 sells multiple products that are dangerous through violation of the most basic rule of recovery: least number of connections, as already mentioned. Their having copied and altered an existing, safe product - the safety thimble - only prompts further disapproval and scorn from me.
...

Part of what I see and part of what I find interesting is that F55 has built an aesthetic around their product line. That aesthetic was founded on a series a poor designs. Now they are stuck with this aesthetic as they slowly convert their elaborate Jeep jewelry shackles into elaborate Jeep jewelry thimbles. It's an interesting struggle as they try to maintain their company identity.

 

[Sundowner]

To add, if these ropes were UV sensitive in a meaningful way then we ought to be keeping the entire rope covered from head to toe. And if they were UV sensitive in a meaningful way, there are lighter, less bulky methods to shield the exposed thimble section than buildng an aluminum cover into the piece.



Part of what I see and part of what I find interesting is that F55 has built an aesthetic around their product line. That aesthetic was founded on a series a poor designs. Now they are stuck with this aesthetic as they slowly convert their elaborate Jeep jewelry shackles into elaborate Jeep jewelry thimbles. It's an interesting struggle as they try to maintain their company identity.

Well, here's some of their latest evolution...

https://factor55.com/product/flatlink-rope-guard-new/
Now, you can protect your UV-stabilized synthetic line from the damaging effects of UV light! That's...uh...helpful! Yeah, that's it! That's the ticket! It's also useful as...uh...a skid plate! Yeah! It's for when you're trying to climb vertical surfaces thimble-first!

All Jon-Lovitzing aside, they literally say both of those things. They'll also install this new dingus on your FratLink for only $15. Why, that's less than $3.76 per screw...and that, my friends, is by far the cheapest screwing you'll get from Factor 55.

 

[Drizit]

Fair points, I was not aware that the rope wasn't uv stable. I do like the idea if the flatlink thimble as I've had to back off things my thimble was going to hit. The safety thimble fairlead does move it out of the way but I'd be really nervous without a spotter with the rope exposed like that.

15 bucks to install that "skid" is nuking futs.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Sundowner]

Fair points, I was not aware that the rope wasn't uv stable. I do like the idea if the flatlink thimble as I've had to back off things my thimble was going to hit. The safety thimble fairlead does move it out of the way but I'd be really nervous without a spotter with the rope exposed like that.

The rope IS stable; that's why I sarcastically said "you can protect your UV-stabilized synthetic line from the damaging effects of UV light" in my previous post.

If you're hitting an obstacle thimble-first, you have a much more serious risk than scratching a section of your rope: you run the risk of hitting the fairlead. The rope is easily protected with chafing gear; avoiding fairlead damage takes a little more work.

 

[jazngab]

The rope IS stable; that's why I sarcastically said "you can protect your UV-stabilized synthetic line from the damaging effects of UV light" in my previous post.

If you're hitting an obstacle thimble-first, you have a much more serious risk than scratching a section of your rope: you run the risk of hitting the fairlead. The rope is easily protected with chafing gear; avoiding fairlead damage takes a little more work.

Is the hawse fairlead preferable to use with synthetic line vs a roller style fairlead? Is that more for steel line?