OP
High travel, high clearance & high octane, a streetable adventure LJ story
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I got the rear 4 link in.
For the UCA mounts on the axle side, Savvy does not make a kit for the RJ60 and the brackets they include hang off the side of the bridge. For a cleaner and more secure install Blaine sent me GenRight's taller 3" version of these brackets. It's nice having a good friend who's willing to help out on a build. I cut them down to the same height as Savvy's on 2 of the sides and angled to follow the bridge on the other side. I think I can still shave them another 1/4".
The LCA mounts from Currie don't fit their JJs at flex (which doesn't make sense) and require shaving by 3/8":
I set the frame height to the equivalent of 4" of lift with 37" tires (which is 22" to the lowest frame rails) and the center of the axle tubes at 18" (where 37s will place it). I then moved the axle to full bump and measured the travel until something hit.
The problem is I'm not seeing the up travel that I need or expected. I'm hitting the JJs against the tub at 5" of up travel. Comparing measurements against another RJ60, It turns out that the RJ60VXR housing is closer to a RJ70 housing with a bridge that doesn't sit nearly as tight against the diff cover. Effectively taking up those 2".
I cut a hole through the floor for the upper JohnnyJoints to get that extra 2". Once I get the rest of the suspension in and the rear frame welded together 100% I'll crawl into the tub and clean up the hole and make a new floor for it.
For the UCA mounts on the axle side, Savvy does not make a kit for the RJ60 and the brackets they include hang off the side of the bridge. For a cleaner and more secure install Blaine sent me GenRight's taller 3" version of these brackets. It's nice having a good friend who's willing to help out on a build. I cut them down to the same height as Savvy's on 2 of the sides and angled to follow the bridge on the other side. I think I can still shave them another 1/4".
The LCA mounts from Currie don't fit their JJs at flex (which doesn't make sense) and require shaving by 3/8":
I set the frame height to the equivalent of 4" of lift with 37" tires (which is 22" to the lowest frame rails) and the center of the axle tubes at 18" (where 37s will place it). I then moved the axle to full bump and measured the travel until something hit.
The problem is I'm not seeing the up travel that I need or expected. I'm hitting the JJs against the tub at 5" of up travel. Comparing measurements against another RJ60, It turns out that the RJ60VXR housing is closer to a RJ70 housing with a bridge that doesn't sit nearly as tight against the diff cover. Effectively taking up those 2".
I cut a hole through the floor for the upper JohnnyJoints to get that extra 2". Once I get the rest of the suspension in and the rear frame welded together 100% I'll crawl into the tub and clean up the hole and make a new floor for it.
OP
In the rear I'm going with hoops to mount the coilovers. I received 3 of the 4 2.5x14" Fox Factory Series remote reservoir coilovers today. At this point in my build I've learned my lesson that custom builds run into all sorts of parts delays. What's supposed to take a week to receive takes a month.
There's multiple good coilover brands, I chose Fox because of the guys who tune them. The 2.5" coilovers have more tuning options available than the 2.0s and will run more consistent in their performance. They're currently sporting whatever tune comes on them from the factory. If anybody has a shim stack they'd suggest I run (at least to get by) I'm all ears. I'll eventually road trip to the west coast for a proper tune.
I bleed the gas out and started mocking up the hoops:
There is much more room than I was expecting between the tire and the shock. Since this clearance is not an issue I took the tire off for mocking up the coilover hoops.
Over the next several days I will be messing around with placement.
There's multiple good coilover brands, I chose Fox because of the guys who tune them. The 2.5" coilovers have more tuning options available than the 2.0s and will run more consistent in their performance. They're currently sporting whatever tune comes on them from the factory. If anybody has a shim stack they'd suggest I run (at least to get by) I'm all ears. I'll eventually road trip to the west coast for a proper tune.
I bleed the gas out and started mocking up the hoops:
There is much more room than I was expecting between the tire and the shock. Since this clearance is not an issue I took the tire off for mocking up the coilover hoops.
Over the next several days I will be messing around with placement.
OP
I decided to go up through the fender instead of rotating back. I think it will allow for better engineering and suspension geometry.
OP
Over the last few days I had been rolling around in my head the idea of putting 2.5x16" COs in the back since they'd fit and I could bump stop them at 14" for now but have the room to grow if I ever choose to modify the current limiting factors. While it looks good on paper, after looking more into it it turns out that 2.5x16" (and 2.0) coilovers don't play well. The coils bow and hit stuff. And there's no benefit for anything I will be doing. 14" of travel is already as much as I will ever need or want. There's also a few very well thought out race cars built on 14" that entirely have the option of going to 16" — point being, I don't think I need any more travel.
That makes things much easier on me (and I can stop dreaming of raising the inner fender well seam)!
I got to work and mocked up the hoops on the passenger's side. Everything clears with room to spare. Air bump cans are coming in today and as long as they have a spot I'll be leaving the hoops where they currently are and copy on the driver's side. I'll try and take a few more pictures of the process as I do the other side.
All of these pictures are about 2" from full bump.
The bottom mounts are from Artec. They're made a little thicker than I'd like, but they work.
The hoops are from Genright. I took a front half kit but it's looking like I'll only be using the hoops from it. The shock mounts are too narrow for the Fox eyelets so I'm cutting and reassembling them a little wider.
That makes things much easier on me (and I can stop dreaming of raising the inner fender well seam)!
I got to work and mocked up the hoops on the passenger's side. Everything clears with room to spare. Air bump cans are coming in today and as long as they have a spot I'll be leaving the hoops where they currently are and copy on the driver's side. I'll try and take a few more pictures of the process as I do the other side.
All of these pictures are about 2" from full bump.
The bottom mounts are from Artec. They're made a little thicker than I'd like, but they work.
The hoops are from Genright. I took a front half kit but it's looking like I'll only be using the hoops from it. The shock mounts are too narrow for the Fox eyelets so I'm cutting and reassembling them a little wider.
If you had to guess (and if you don't mind my asking), how much money do you think you will have in this build by the time it's done. It's absolutely euphoric to follow the progress... but it can't be cheap, that's for sure.
That suspension setup is the stuff of dreams!
That suspension setup is the stuff of dreams!
OP
I have absolutely no idea how much money or time I've put into this build so far. While some individual pieces are pricey (for example, coilovers and axles) I find that it's the small bolts, brackets, and fittings that really add up.
For me this build is partially about the challenge of it and I enjoy eking out that last 10% of performance that takes 90% of the time. And doing so results in a certain refined finesse that can't be obtained in any other ways.
I have to assume you're going to do some serious wheeling in it when you're done with the build?
I feel you on the little stuff. Every time I take a trip to ACE Hardware to pickup bits and pieces (usually bolts and such), I'm always amazed by how quickly that hardware adds up. It gets expensive... fast.
OP
For sure. Especially the large bolts amaze me with how much they cost. Want a handful of 1/2" grade 8 bolts? Better stop at the blood bank on the way and sell some plasma.
I do plan on wheeling this rig fairly hard and will be driving (driving, not towing) it across the country for various trails and trips. I still enjoy scenic easy to moderate trails and rock crawling is the real drug. I haven't done any go fast desert yet but I am excited to cut my teeth on that too once my Jeep is together.
Yes, I picked some up recently and it was something like $4 per bolt! It makes you appreciate the fact that most of these companies (i.e. Savvy) include the bolts in their kits. Most people don't account for how much those things cost on their own.
That's cool that you'll be driving it instead of towing it. I'm curious how it's road manners will be after all the work done. I can't imagine they'd be bad, but at some point that 4.0 may need to be replaced with a bigger power plant, especially for those highway trips, right?
Will the solid axles front and rear be ideal for go-fast desert stuff? I was always under the impression that those desert built rigs were better off using IFS in the front and solid axles in the rear. Of course I suppose you don't really have a choice there since putting IFS in the front of a Wrangler would probably be both pointless and incredibly expensive.
I'm just not sure how two solid axles would handle those washboard surfaces at high speed.
OP
I will say regarding cost, that at one point early on with my build I realized that I would have been considerably better off financially if I had started with a Jeep in worse condition and sold this LJ. But there's something about having "my Jeep" that I've used as DD for the last 8 years that's special to me.
Good point. I suppose with all the work you've done, you could have started with something a lot more beat up. Just the cost of a clean LJ alone these days is pretty expensive.
OP
The steering is based on a design perfected by Blaine (great examples here: http://justaddrocks.com/Steering Pictures/steering.htm). I expect the road manors to be as tight as stock and the ride quality to be better — I am anxious to see how those points actually turn out.
I am boosting the 4.0L and my build is extremely light (I'd guess sprung weight will be right around stock weight if not less). I know I want to eventually do an engine swap I also know that I'd be unsatisfied without swapping the tranny and transfercase at the same time. I also know that I'll want to make that engine perform too and like the rest of my build not settle. Maybe aim for 600HP?
Solid axles are not ideal for go fast. I'll only be dabbling in it... for now... Plenty of Ultra4 cars have proven that while not ideal you can do desert racing with solid axles just fine. That however is an ongoing argument and highly dependent on the course that year. Obviously you're not going to see the next baja champion on solid axles but for an all around build I think solid axles are great.
That steering setup looks really, really amazing. I'm curious to hear how it handles with that setup once all is said and done.
My old TJ Rubicon was boosted with a supercharger. I was running 8 psi and it definitely transformed the 4.0 to the point where it felt like the power had almost doubled. I ended up selling that supercharger to Blaine (well, he traded me for some stuff actually) before I sold that TJ Rubicon and got my new one, which coincidently I've also decided to boost as well.
But with as much money as you've put into yours (and all the choice parts), I think that there's no way I wouldn't be swapping in a V8 at some point. One of those LS motors would easily be good for 600hp, and you could pair it with a new transmission and transfer case (Atlas?) at the same time. At this point it's basically just screaming for a V8.
I hadn't actually seen anyone do desert racing on solid axles, so that's pretty cool to watch! That Ultra4 is absolutely awesome. I've always been impressed with those sort of desert racing rigs. Watching them race is such a blast. What I wouldn't give to have one of those!
OP
You ought to try and make the next KOH. If my build is reliable by then I'll be trying to make it (maybe you can host a forum meet up or have a booth?). I've never been and have only watched the live stream.
Yeah, I know I should do a V8 swap but I miss driving my Jeep. And with the faint knowledge I have of even just the exhaust routing alone that will need to happen I think the engine swap could end up taking me another summer to do. I am setting up the fuel cell to port right into a V8 though. Someday...
I'd like to go to KOH, that would indeed be fun. And it's also not a bad idea to host some sort of a forum meet simultaneously. I'm guessing a lot of people would show up. I'll have to look more into that.
I was going to say... you must miss driving the Jeep. It's been down for a while now, right? I think the swap would at least take a few months. Even the builders I've talked to who do V8 swaps all told me (when I was looking into it), that I probably ought to expect to leave my Jeep with them for 3 months or so.
To do it right, there's a lot that needs to be done. I can live with a supercharged 4.0. Heck, I suppose if you really wanted more power you could always boost the 4.0 and put a 4.6 stroker in it or something. With that setup I suspect you could get 300 hp or more at the wheels, which wouldn't be shabby at all. My main concern is just that it isn't a dog on the highway... you know, when passing people and such.
OP
Rear coilovers are in their place. The 14" of travel is incredible to see. Often when working on this I think I've gotten "normalized" to seeing 37s in the garage and other things like 14" of travel start to also sound "normal" in my head. Once you actually start playing with it and finding a place for it though it becomes massive.
I cycled the suspension 5-10x per side and keep adjusting the angles of the mounts to prevent any bind. It helps to remove the o-rings from the shock eyelets so you can get a better feel for where the shock binds. I'll probably be replacing the o-rings to keep junk out in our wet environment.
The hoop spreader will be going in once I figure out where the fuel cell and spare tire are going. When I make the panels to cover the hoops I will need to make them removable so I can still get to the top bolt.
I cycled the suspension 5-10x per side and keep adjusting the angles of the mounts to prevent any bind. It helps to remove the o-rings from the shock eyelets so you can get a better feel for where the shock binds. I'll probably be replacing the o-rings to keep junk out in our wet environment.
The hoop spreader will be going in once I figure out where the fuel cell and spare tire are going. When I make the panels to cover the hoops I will need to make them removable so I can still get to the top bolt.
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My favorite part about this is that it's meant to be street driven as well as off-roaded.
I see a lot of guys get to this level of build where it becomes completely impractical to be driven on the street. I'm not suggesting you'll daily drive it, but driving such a beast on the street at all is awesome in my book.
I see a lot of guys get to this level of build where it becomes completely impractical to be driven on the street. I'm not suggesting you'll daily drive it, but driving such a beast on the street at all is awesome in my book.
OP
You're welcome to suggest that I DD it. I average maybe 8k miles per year daily driving and I will be returning the Jeep to that duty once it's together. I think that will actually help me keep it reliable for longer trips since I'll be on top of maintenance. I might end up picking something else cheap up for the winter though and only take this jeep out for winter wheeling.