How important is double adjustable front upper control arms (vs. single adjustable)

[jjvw]

A solution looking for a problem is a great way to describe many of their products. Though, separating those non-problems from a real one can be difficult, especially when the tangibility of non-problems and real problems don't begin to manifest outside the realm of most people's experience.

Imped was one the early proponents of the DF bushing. Bushings he got for free, btw. But he never put the miles and abuse on them to be any real credible authority. Yet people still cite his recommendation despite the Jeep being parked for most of that time after losing interest and selling the whole rig.

 

[Sundowner]

A solution looking for a problem is a great way to describe many of their products. Though, separating those non-problems from a real one can be difficult, especially when the tangibility of non-problems and real problems don't begin to manifest outside the realm of most people's experience.

Imped was one the early proponents of the DF bushing. Bushings he got for free, btw. But he never put the miles and abuse on them to be any real credible authority. Yet people still cite his recommendation despite the Jeep being parked for most of that time after losing interest and selling the whole rig.

Connor is one of the few people that was almost as unreasonable popular as me, and - although this is a barb in my own direction - the nature and source of someone's reputation must be considered when you decide whether or not to heed their words. That incident in particular, and the timespan that related to it, compromised him.

 

[Lou]

I replaced the Johnny joints with DF bushings in my lower control arms once upon a time. less than a year and a half later 6 of the 8 bushings were blown out and loose inside of the barrel. I would highly recommend no one ever buy metal cloak arms.

 

[Lou]

I forgot to add my wonderful experience with Metal Cloak as well. I ordered 8 of the bushings that are supposed to drop in to 2.5" Johnny joints. It took a good 3 weeks for them to ship despite paying top dollar for shipping. when they arrived they sent me the wrong bushings. I contacted them the following day and they got me the correct bushings coming my way.

Wrong.

They only sent me 2 bushings.. So the following day I got back on the phone and told them how they fucked up and how ridiculous this is. By the time I got all 8 of the bushings I had ordered it was over 5 weeks from the day I paid for the joints.

 

[psrivats]

If you watch some of the threads where folks are trying to dial out vibes and the continual adjusting to do so, a DA arm is infinitely more valued than a single.

I was just about to say the same thing. With how many times we adjusted the angles in my Jeep for weeks and weeks towards fixing the vibrations, it would have been a royal PITA without DA arms. So glad I had the Savvy ones.

 

[bobthetj03]

You should just get the Currie arms to match your existing core arms. At least then you'll have all JJ'S.

 

[jjvw]

I replaced the Johnny joints with DF bushings in my lower control arms once upon a time. less than a year and a half later 6 of the 8 bushings were blown out and loose inside of the barrel. I would highly recommend no one ever buy metal cloak arms.

Can you share more about how many miles, what the build was, where the Jeep was used? What are your thoughts on why they failed?

 

[IPerkWVU]

You should just get the Currie arms to match your existing core arms. At least then you'll have all JJ'S.

I had gone back and forth with a guy selling used Currie JJs that were in rough shape a while back but he wouldn't budge on price and had them listed too high after I factored in the rebuild costs.

If you could get 60k out of the MC arms before a rebuild that will suit me just fine, my jeep isn't a daily and already has 140k Midwest miles on the odometer. Ordered 2 sets of Metalcloak DA lowers and DA front uppers. While I wanted to replace them all... the rear Core4x4 are brand new. Could have bought the total package and resold the Cores but saved a few bucks today and not worried about it.

@psrivats yeah, hopefully I don't run into those down the road but I'll be prepared to dial them in if needed.

 

[bobthetj03]

I can't give a fair estimate of longevity of my DF bushings because I could only afford 2 at a time. All but the rear uppers are single adjustable. The front uppers are the oldest at 6 years old with 65K miles and several wheeling trips. It's my daily. Lowers have roughly 35K miles.

 

[Lou]

Can you share more about how many miles, what the build was, where the Jeep was used? What are your thoughts on why they failed?

I was running 4" savvy short arm at the time. At this time the jeep was my Daily Driver and I was living between southern Illinois and northern Illinois. The terrain is southern Illinois was mostly muddy forest trails with some rocks. The reason I went with the DF was because I was tired of having to disassemble and grease my Johnny joints every 3-4 months because they would started groaning. Less than 20k miles later, I now live in Southern California. I started to hear some groaning noises over bumps and figured it was time to grease these. When I removed the lower control arms, I realized I could wiggle the bushings inside of the barrels. Disappointedly, I removed them and put fresh Johnny joints back in.

Fast forward a few months, I'm now on savvy mid arms and will be sticking with Johnny Joints. I could not tell a difference between Johnny Joints and DF both on the road and on the trail. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. Im hoping now that I don't have to deal with mud and heavy pressure washing under the jeep that I will be able to go much longer than 3-4 months before needing to grease my joints. Ive since moved to Redline grease as well, which came recommended to me for Johnny Joints.

 

[astjp2]

Ok, what is a DF bushing? is it a dual durometer like the synergy DDB?

 

[Lou]

It is a control arm bushing made by metal cloak.

 

[MutantNinjaTJ]

You don't understand arms and threads then. With DA, you have infinite fine control over the length. If you turn the barrel 1 degree, half of that, or even 1/10 of that rotation, the length of the arm will be adjusted by that miniscule amount. If you have a single adjustable, you are limited by 180 degree rotations and the length change is exactly half of what the thread pitch is per 1/2 rotation.

Not that it matters for length though, just ease of adjustment. I've never seen where the fine adjustment matters.

Well, if your gonna put it that way.

 

[Sundowner]

Ok, what is a DF bushing? is it a dual durometer like the synergy DDB?

It's a cute little fib made of rubber and Kevlar™ and Jonestown Kool-Aid (which wasn't actually Kool-Aid in the same way that the Duroflex bushing isn't actually an improvement on anything).

 

[astjp2]

Well I gueinnea pig for a set of synergy DDB's

 

[mrblaine]

Ok, what is a DF bushing? is it a dual durometer like the synergy DDB?

The non nuanced description is to take a Clevite bushing. Remove the outer steel shell. Add a bubble in the middle of the bonded bolt sleeve inside the rubber bushing. Hold that into the equivalent of a JJ housing end with a similar retention method. Shoulder on one end, snap ring and groove on the other. Slather with "special" grease, pop into housing, insert snap ring, and bingo bango, special joint that solves all the world's problems.

 

[astjp2]

I am afraid to ask what the special grease is...almost afraid...

 

[Sundowner]

I am afraid to ask what the special grease is...almost afraid...

KY with molybdenum and lithium added, both mostly for flavor.

 

[bobthetj03]

Yawn.

 

[astjp2]

KY with molybdenum and lithium added, both mostly for flavor.

So WHAT DOES KY TASTE LIKE?