Johnny Joint grease—an experiment

Mike_H said:
I’ve not seen it in a gun format, but I haven’t really looked either.
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I'd kinda be surprised if it does. It's so thick I'm not sure it would move through a grease gun.

Mike_H said:
I’ll have to look at the adventure series. Not familiar with that one.
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It's Rock Krawlers newest joint that appears to be of similar concept to Metalcloaks duroflex but might address some of it's shortcomings. Word on the street (as in I've seen it referenced a couple times here on WTJF) is that Savvy may be going to them instead of JJs. It seems to rotate around the sleeve about as well as a JJ but of course still has more resistance in the other two planes.

Mike_H said:
They grooves are part of the solution I think. I’m still kicking around some idea in my head to make the grease go where I want it, and not where I don’t. For kicks and giggles, I tried squirting some grease into the housing zerk today on the bench. The castlations must have been lined up correctly, and the joint took grease easily. However, it flowed through the bushings, into the joint and right straight through the ball to the bolt hole. That ain’t going to work.
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I keep thinking grooves that would basically allow you to flush the joint with new grease would be the ticket. But yeah, can't have it escaping into the bolt hole.
 
I sent Currie an email this morning...Copied below:

Hi Erik,
I have a question for you all. I’m running a full set of Johnny Joint control arms on my Jeep Wrangler (TJ). I live in the Midwest (Michigan) and get off road about once a month. The issue I’m finding is that its impossible to keep grease from drying up in my environment. This causes the joints to squeak and seize if I don’t take care of it. They do not accept grease through the zerks (the urethane races have too much preload) and it basically requires me to disassemble all 14 joints to re-lube them. I’ve tried and had the most success with silicone based grease (from Energy suspension). However, that grease doesn’t have the anti-corrosion protection like a petroleum based product…so they still need to be rebuilt, at least annually. I’ve tried Lucas Red and Tacky, Currie’s Johnny Joint grease, and Red Line CV-2 in them, in addition to the Energy Suspension Formula 5. My [Give @mrblaine the credit here] leading theory is that the clay silt type mud that I frequently find myself in is drying the oils in the grease out. The thought process behind this is paying attention to what makes oil soak or kitty litter work…they are also Clay based and very good at absorbing oil. After the clay absorbs the oil and gets washed away, its leaving the non-oil additives in the joint and at that point its no longer lubricating or protecting from corrosion. The typical joint I rebuild looks like this.

1681151253424.png




They responded pretty quickly (given the time zone differences) with the following:

Good morning,
You are correct that clay type will typically dry the grease out, which is why we use high moly content grease. A side from more frequent greasing since you wheel in that type of condition to make sure it stays lubed, after you install the bushings take a drill bit and remove the zerk fitting and drill a hole through the bushing that should allow grease an easier travel path to the ball center.

Its interesting to me that they suggest drilling a hole. I'm not sure where the grease is going to go, once you have a hole in the race...its still compressed. With the additions of my grease grooves though, I can see a path for the grease to follow to the exterior of the joint, hopefully without extruding race material. I'm going to pick up a grease gun and try their lube with a drilled hole, as well as some Aluminum based anti-seize on one arm.
 
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Mike_H said:
I sent Currie an email this morning...Copied below:

Hi Erik,
I have a question for you all. I’m running a full set of Johnny Joint control arms on my Jeep Wrangler (TJ). I live in the Midwest (Michigan) and get off road about once a month. The issue I’m finding is that its impossible to keep grease from drying up in my environment. This causes the joints to squeak and seize if I don’t take care of it. They do not accept grease through the zerks (the urethane races have too much preload) and it basically requires me to disassemble all 14 joints to re-lube them. I’ve tried and had the most success with silicone based grease (from Energy suspension). However, that grease doesn’t have the anti-corrosion protection like a petroleum based product…so they still need to be rebuilt, at least annually. I’ve tried Lucas Red and Tacky, Currie’s Johnny Joint grease, and Red Line CV-2 in them, in addition to the Energy Suspension Formula 5. My [Give @mrblaine the credit here] leading theory is that the clay silt type mud that I frequently find myself in is drying the oils in the grease out. The thought process behind this is paying attention to what makes oil soak or kitty litter work…they are also Clay based and very good at absorbing oil. After the clay absorbs the oil and gets washed away, its leaving the non-oil additives in the joint and at that point its no longer lubricating or protecting from corrosion. The typical joint I rebuild looks like this.

View attachment 415067



They responded pretty quickly (given the time zone differences) with the following:

Good morning,
You are correct that clay type will typically dry the grease out, which is why we use high moly content grease. A side from more frequent greasing since you wheel in that type of condition to make sure it stays lubed, after you install the bushings take a drill bit and remove the zerk fitting and drill a hole through the bushing that should allow grease an easier travel path to the ball center.

Its interesting to me that they suggest drilling a hole. I'm not sure where the grease is going to go, once you have a hole in the race...its still compressed. With the additions of my grease grooves though, I can see a path for the grease to follow to the exterior of the joint, hopefully without extruding race material. I'm going to pick up a grease gun and try their lube with a drilled hole, as well as some Aluminum based anti-seize on one arm.
Click to expand...

Well this is a bit disheartening. I just disassembled brand new Currie lower arms and greased them up with the redline CV2. Still waiting for my 2” JJ tool and front uppers to arrive. I’ve yet to service my rear double adjustables in the 3 years I’ve had them on. I’m in the Northeast and although I try to avoid mud as much as possible it’s inevitable. It’s also very much claylike.
 
Has anyone tried BMS 3-33?

"BMS 3-33 is a non-clay based grease that provides longer life for components and mechanisms and possesses improved wear and corrosion resistance."
 
mudmaster said:
Has anyone tried BMS 3-33?

"BMS 3-33 is a non-clay based grease that provides longer life for components and mechanisms and possesses improved wear and corrosion resistance."
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Anything that has is mixed with a liquid to become "fluid" (i.e. grease-like) can be absorbed by kitty litter or oil soak and is going to dry up in the conditions I've experienced. The ONLY lube I've seen not do this is the energy suspension stuff. I'm sure there are other types that are similar.

I think the answer for me will be figuring out how to make the grease flow through the joint and hitting them with the gun after a trip. Honestly, If I can get to that point, I'd be a happy camper. I typically spend an hour or so looking things over anyway. Snapping a grease fitting on isn't that big a deal.
 
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Mike_H said:
I sent Currie an email this morning...Copied below:

Hi Erik,
I have a question for you all. I’m running a full set of Johnny Joint control arms on my Jeep Wrangler (TJ). I live in the Midwest (Michigan) and get off road about once a month. The issue I’m finding is that its impossible to keep grease from drying up in my environment. This causes the joints to squeak and seize if I don’t take care of it. They do not accept grease through the zerks (the urethane races have too much preload) and it basically requires me to disassemble all 14 joints to re-lube them. I’ve tried and had the most success with silicone based grease (from Energy suspension). However, that grease doesn’t have the anti-corrosion protection like a petroleum based product…so they still need to be rebuilt, at least annually. I’ve tried Lucas Red and Tacky, Currie’s Johnny Joint grease, and Red Line CV-2 in them, in addition to the Energy Suspension Formula 5. My [Give @mrblaine the credit here] leading theory is that the clay silt type mud that I frequently find myself in is drying the oils in the grease out. The thought process behind this is paying attention to what makes oil soak or kitty litter work…they are also Clay based and very good at absorbing oil. After the clay absorbs the oil and gets washed away, its leaving the non-oil additives in the joint and at that point its no longer lubricating or protecting from corrosion. The typical joint I rebuild looks like this.

View attachment 415067



They responded pretty quickly (given the time zone differences) with the following:

Good morning,
You are correct that clay type will typically dry the grease out, which is why we use high moly content grease. A side from more frequent greasing since you wheel in that type of condition to make sure it stays lubed, after you install the bushings take a drill bit and remove the zerk fitting and drill a hole through the bushing that should allow grease an easier travel path to the ball center.

Its interesting to me that they suggest drilling a hole. I'm not sure where the grease is going to go, once you have a hole in the race...its still compressed. With the additions of my grease grooves though, I can see a path for the grease to follow to the exterior of the joint, hopefully without extruding race material. I'm going to pick up a grease gun and try their lube with a drilled hole, as well as some Aluminum based anti-seize on one arm.
Click to expand...

sounds like they don't have an answer and he's just shooting from the hip. The center channel around the "equator" of the poly bushing already allows for a place to grease to get to the ball, a hole is just gonna provide one more little space for grease to dead end at. Maybe if you drilled and threaded a hole on the housing exactly straight across from the zerk, you could fill that center groove with new grease until it comes out the other hole and then install a set screw to plug it. Probably still isn't gonna coat the entire ball but it might be a way to at least flush out the solids with some fresh grease and maybe the fresh stuff makes its way around as you drive and the bushings articulate around the ball.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
Maybe if you drilled and threaded a hole on the housing exactly straight across from the zerk, you could fill that center groove with new grease until it comes out the other hole and then install a set screw to plug it.
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or give the grooves an exit path (but a single small one so there's resistance to force filling the grooves before it can escape). But this looks like a tedious enough process as it was to start and if this ends up being the only answer, I think I'm more interested in finding a different joint tech than making this work.

1681156167624.png
 
freedom_in_4low said:
or give the grooves an exit path (but a single small one so there's resistance to force filling the grooves before it can escape). But this looks like a tedious enough process as it was to start and if this ends up being the only answer, I think I'm more interested in finding a different joint tech than making this work.

View attachment 415085
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The application of the grooves wasn’t bad. Less than 5 minutes a joint. I used a ball end burr in my pencil grinder. Cleaning and greasing took far more time
 
freedom_in_4low said:
sounds like they don't have an answer and he's just shooting from the hip. The center channel around the "equator" of the poly bushing already allows for a place to grease to get to the ball, a hole is just gonna provide one more little space for grease to dead end at. Maybe if you drilled and threaded a hole on the housing exactly straight across from the zerk, you could fill that center groove with new grease until it comes out the other hole and then install a set screw to plug it. Probably still isn't gonna coat the entire ball but it might be a way to at least flush out the solids with some fresh grease and maybe the fresh stuff makes its way around as you drive and the bushings articulate around the ball.
Click to expand...

There really isn’t a channel for the grease. The two halves interlock. The only “path” for the grease is the small 0.030” flat on the ball that won’t compress the bushing as much as everything else around it.

Drilling a hole doesn’t do anything for you if you line the holes in the castellations up with the zerk.
 
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Mike_H said:
There really isn’t a channel for the grease. The two halves interlock. The only “path” for the grease is the small 0.030” flat on the ball that won’t compress the bushing as much as everything else around it.

Drilling a hole doesn’t do anything for you if you line the holes in the castellations up with the zerk.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason for the interlocks? I don't see how the interlocks are supporting the ball. There is no where for the halves to go. I don't think the interlocks do anything other than make it harder to lube with a grease gun. My next move will be removing the interlocking blocks and use silicon grease in a grease gun.
 
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Brianj5600 said:
Is there a reason for the interlocks? I don't see how the interlocks are supporting the ball. There is no where for the halves to go. I don't think the interlocks do anything other than make it harder to lube with a grease gun. My next move will be removing the interlocking blocks and use silicon grease in a grease gun.
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let us know how it goes
 
Just checking in!

2nd time this year I'm servicing my joints. All my lowers were dry and a couple groaned.

Any new thoughts or updates?

As for cleaning the ball, a bolt, some washers, a nut, emerry cloth and a drill motor!

20230915_152739.jpg
 
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Mrholland said:
Just checking in!

2nd time this year I'm servicing my joints. All my lowers were dry and a couple groaned.

Any new thoughts or updates?

As for cleaning the ball, a bolt, some washers, a nut, emerry cloth and a drill motor!

View attachment 458219
Click to expand...

I'm just listening to them creak while I wait for Rock Krawler to start selling their Adventure Series as builder parts that I can retrofit into my arms. They keep saying they'll be on the website this fall. My uppers should be no problem but my RC lowers are huge amd take the biggest shank Rockjock makes, so there's a more than decent chance RK won't have a shank big enough. I'll either have to retrofit Metalcloaks into those or buy RK lowers.

Fwiw, the energy suspension formula 5 was creaking even earlier than the red stuff, and I think I'll be stuck with maintaining JJs for the axle end of the front uppers, so I'll be using CV2 on those. At least it'll only be 2 joints instead of 10. For whatever reason the one in my track bar has gone since 2019 without a sound.
 
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