Limited slip or locker?

[DeepLugDoug]

Had a pretty good summer of wheeling with the TJ. I added a 1.25" body lift and 31x10.50 BFG A/T tires. My wheeling buddy has the Sahara with a limited slip rear and several times he has made something look easy that mine had a little trouble with. I would like to add either a locker in the front or a limited slip rear. Suggestions?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Had a pretty good summer of wheeling with the TJ. I added a 1.25" body lift and 31x10.50 BFG A/T tires. My wheeling buddy has the Sahara with a limited slip rear and several times he has made something look easy that mine had a little trouble with. I would like to add either a locker in the front or a limited slip rear. Suggestions?

I'd go for a lunchbox locker in the front which will be far more helpful offroad than a LSD in the rear will. My personal recommendation for a front lunchbox locker is the No-Slip from Powertrax, it's impossible to tell it's even there when you're in two wheel drive, it's virtually silent and does not affect steering. Only when you're in 4x4 does it lock up hard. Other lunchbox lockers usually click/ratchet when you're making slow speed turns in 2wd like when you're in a parking lot which causes some well-intentioned people to come up to you and tell you that you have a problem with your front axle lol.

Edit: Since you live in Houston Canada and not Houston TX as I thought I agree with the below recommendation to go with a selectable locker up front if you have to drive on slick roads in 4x4 during the winter. Something like an Eaton E-Locker would be a good choice.

 

[steelhd]

I have to disagree with Jerry based on where you are wheeling in BC and suggest selectable lockers. In off camber situations when it's slick due to mud, snow, or loose rock a locker can draw you downhill and being able to unlock is the key to getting through or back out.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I have to disagree with Jerry based on where you are wheeling in BC and suggest selectable lockers. In off camber situations when it's slick due to mud, snow, or loose rock a locker can draw you downhill and being able to unlock is the key to getting through or back out.

I agree, I thought he lived in Houston Texas not Houston Canada lol.

 

[DeepLugDoug]

Thanks. I don't use it in the winter months but I can see the advantages of a selectable locker.

 

[UKTJ]

...In off camber situations when it's slick due to mud, snow, or loose rock a locker can draw you downhill and being able to unlock is the key to getting through or back out.

As somebody else who lives where it is also often slicjk and muddy, it would be great if you could expand a bit on what you mean by "draw you downhill". Thanks in advance.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

As somebody else who lives where it is also often slicjk and muddy, it would be great if you could expand a bit on what you mean by "draw you downhill". Thanks in advance.

Lockers have also become humorously named as a "low side finder" when you're on a slick surface like when it's icy or covered with snow when you're off-camber (tilted sideways on a slope). When both tires are spinning together on a slick surface you can slide down the slope. When the locker is unlocked or there's an open axle or limited slip inside it the tire that doesn't spin can serve, more or less, as an anchor to help prevent that sideways slide down an off-camber section.

 

[UKTJ]

Lockers have also become humorously named as a "low side finder" when you're on a slick surface like when it's icy or covered with snow when you're off-camber (tilted sideways on a slope). When both tires are spinning together on a slick surface you can slide down the slope. When the locker is unlocked or there's an open axle or limited slip inside it the tire that doesn't spin can serve, more or less, as an anchor to help prevent that sideways slide down an off-camber section.

Thanks for this @Jerry Bransford, no doubt due to my lack of experience with lockers but I'm still struggling to understand fully.

As a starting point, I understand that if you are in a situation where one wheel on an axle has no traction it will spin and rob the other wheel of torque. If the axle is locked then the wheel without traction (say off the ground) and the other wheel (say on a nice grippy rock) move togegher, so the wheel with traction can move the Jeep forward.

But, if it is equally wet and muddy under both wheels without the locker both wheels will spin. If the axle is then locked won't both wheels still spin? Is the benefit of unlocking that even if both wheels are on slippery ground, if one wheel has less traction that wheel will spin while the other stays still. Then that spinning wheel may have ehough wheel speed too 'catch' traction and will give the Jeep some momentum?

 

[UKTJ]

Thanks for this @Jerry Bransford, no doubt due to my lack of experience with lockers but I'm still struggling to understand fully.

As a starting point, I understand that if you are in a situation where one wheel on an axle has no traction it will spin and rob the other wheel of torque. If the axle is locked then the wheel without traction (say off the ground) and the other wheel (say on a nice grippy rock) move togegher, so the wheel with traction can move the Jeep forward.

But, if it is equally wet and muddy under both wheels without the locker both wheels will spin. If the axle is then locked won't both wheels still spin? Is the benefit of unlocking that even if both wheels are on slippery ground, if one wheel has less traction that wheel will spin while the other stays still. Then that spinning wheel may have ehough wheel speed too 'catch' traction and will give the Jeep some momentum?

Bump...

Any more info / detail from @Jerry Bransford, @steelhd or anyone else on the effect of a locked axle walking down a slope much appreciated. Just trying to improve my understanding.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rut Row]

buy auburn lockers and get both. They come with LSD and an elocker.

 

[LONGJP2]

Bump...

anyone else on the effect of a locked axle walking down a slope much appreciated. Just trying to improve my understanding.

Thanks in advance.

This applies more to being sideways on a slope with sketchy traction.
Spinning one wheel might be safer than spinning both.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

buy auburn lockers and get both. They come with LSD and an elocker.

LIke the ECTED locker I'd never go with a friction clutch-based combination LSD/Locker.

Friction clutch packs wear and rarely are they field replaceable. I don't know about Auburn but ECTED requires it be returned to the factory for rebuilding. My guess is the Auburn would be too.

Its frictional engagement/locking mechanism means it could slip under high levels of torque as the ECTED is well known to do which can be catastrophic in some situations on the trail. I personally wouldn't go with that type design.

 

[Frankm]

Do selectable lockers; you ll thank us later!

 

[Rickyd]

Bump...

Any more info / detail from @Jerry Bransford, @steelhd or anyone else on the effect of a locked axle walking down a slope much appreciated. Just trying to improve my understanding.

Thanks in advance.

Like he said. A wheel that isn't spinning has its tire treads gripping a surface. That can make the difference in not slipping sideways downhill when the other is spinning.

If both are slipping then gravity can influence the vehicle since it isn't anchored.it is floating and imparting force in a direction. think of both wheels spinning as being like a boat on water. The propeller is pushing it but not much is stopping the wind from pushing you off course and making you correct for it

 

[UKTJ]

Like he said. A wheel that isn't spinning has its tire treads gripping a surface. That can make the difference in not slipping sideways downhill when the other is spinning.

If both are slipping then gravity can influence the vehicle since it isn't anchored.it is floating and imparting force in a direction. think of both wheels spinning as being like a boat on water. The propeller is pushing it but not much is stopping the wind from pushing you off course and making you correct for it

OK, thank you for expanding. If I understand what you are saying correctly it is just the case that if onlyone wheel is spinning the other may stop the downward slide. But, there is nothing about switching off a selectable locker that helps stop both wheels spinning, if conditions are such that both are spinning that is going to happen whether the locker is switched on or off. What the selectable locker does is allow you to take advantage of only one wheel spinning, but in and of itself that action of switching off the locker does nothing to create that situation.

As I only have experience of driving with an open differential I have no clue how often the situation of one wheel gripping and the other spinning whilst off camber has happened. Based on the initial comments by @steelhd and @Jerry Bransford the general experience must be that it happens reasonably frequently.

 

[TheBoogieman]

Rule #1. Learn to drive before any mods. Lack of skill and nerve will limit anything you do. I learned this when I raced motocross against people with lots of money and top of the line mods. Over 100 trophies later, I was labeled "crazy" for my racing style. I think not. I prefer "Insane". Now people call me that without ever knowing I raced.

 

[jjvw]

... the general experience must be that it happens reasonably frequently.

Not really. The potential exists and one ought to be aware of what is occurring when the slide happens and it becomes a detriment. That way you can react appropriately.

How often are you driving icy, off-camber, mountain shelf roads?

 

[UKTJ]

Not really. The potential exists and one ought to be aware of what is occurring when the slide happens and it becomes a detriment. That way you can react appropriately.

How often are you driving icy, off-camber, mountain shelf roads?

Never. But I am often on slippery muddy off camber tracks in woods, which is where I thouhht the point might apply to me. Is that not correct?

 

[steelhd]

Correct

 

[jjvw]

Never. But I am often on slippery muddy off camber tracks in woods, which is where I thouhht the point might apply to me. Is that not correct?

To what end does it matter? One way or another, you need traction. If you can't get enough traction with lockers, you need different tires, a winch, or a second rig to drag you out.