Locker recommendations for TJ?

[jjvw]

After my rear Rubicon locker failed recently i have started looking into my replacement options.

The Eaton E-locker looked interesting until I learned that it will disengage for about half a wheel rotation when rolled backwards. That is a long distance to be open during a situation where you may need to be locked. Also, if wheel spin occurs during this open spot, I would be concerned about damage.

Once the ARB is locked, it stays locked until the air supply is removed. This little detail is why I will go with ARB.

 

[KCsTJ]

@jjvw Have you looked at the Ox locker?

The little research I've done looks like the primary objections are how or where to run the cable from the locker to the shift lever.

Ox seems to have all that sorted out now even the best place to mount the shift lever.

Yes it may be more of a pain to install but the simplicity is what i like plus I just think it's more 'jeepy'.

Once I find my 4.0 ,still looking, ill seriously look into the Ox locker

 

[jjvw]

@jjvw Have you looked at the Ox locker?

The little research I've done looks like the primary objections are how or where to run the cable from the locker to the shift lever.

Ox seems to have all that sorted out now even the best place to mount the shift lever.

Yes it may be more of a pain to install but the simplicity is what i like plus I just think it's more 'jeepy'.

Once I find my 4.0 ,still looking, ill seriously look into the Ox locker

The OX locker has a huge diff cover. Too much of my build is based on bringing the suspension travels to their limits that I don't want any chance of needing to add bump stop just to accommodate a locker.

I'm also not sure that a cable is the best method in this application. And their air actuator looks like an afterthought.

I already have a robust air supply and there is no meaningful cost difference between any of the realistic options.

 

[Jerry Little]

What axles do you have now?
Edit: Nevermind, I see your profile.

What gears do you have now?

3:73 gears now

 

[Jerry Little]

I want to dispel some rumors. I have always been a proponent of ARB's (air locker) but in my new TJ I decided to try a E-locker because I thought it was going to be easier because all you have to do is run a wire as mentioned previously, and as @Squatch mentioned you have to pull the trigger on something, but the wiring kit that comes with the air locker is way more stiff and bigger than running air lines. Honestly the wire harness is heavy and I plan on running them front and rear so I will have to route two of these. These harness run to switches and relays and circuit breakers. There is actually a lot more than running air lines in my opinion so far. I haven't actually ran the wires yet. I am still in the imagining phase. I mean I have the parts, but my rear end is not installed yet. I am also going to try and convert the switches in my dash to stock like switches which will be somewhat difficult because the harness for the most part is already prewired. I don't have any regrets going with the elockers, but I did think they would be easier, but I think in the long run the ARB's were actually quite easier.

The place that build my rear axle for me this time, said they prefer the ARB because there are parts if necessary and they are easier to obtain., but the eaton parts are quite a bit harder to get, and they don't sell a lot of parts meaning if the locker fails most likely you will be replacing the locker rather than repairing it.

I am not discouraged and plan on putting one in the front as soon as i am done with the rear. But in retrospect, if I had seen the wire harness up front, I probably would have stuck with the ARB, but that said, I haven't heard anything bad about the e-lockers and I am confident I will like them when they are finally in and running. Also the wire harness didn't come with any instructions although most of the wires are labelled.

With air set up you still have to run wires and a switch. The switch should still go through a relay regardless. The wiring part for me is easy as I am a union commercial industrial electrician. With air you would have to run wiring to the pump from a switch

 

[Jerry Little]

Selectable lockers are going to be the luxury here. Luxury comes in at a higher price point. I truly belive like most things Jeep related, you get what you pay for and selectable lockers are the top of the list when it comes to performance and ease of use.

Its worth mentioning the Detroit is also a solid choice as it has built quite the reputation for being reliable and performing as advertised.

I heard they can be a little noisy, no?

 

[JMT]

I heard they can be a little noisy, no?

Yes, you just have to learn to drive with them. Don’t accelerate through 90* turns. They occasionally will click. It’s something most people get used to and it doesn’t bother them

 

[CAJACK]

Detroit is bulletproof, but I had one in the rear of a CJ and driving on slick roads was a real adventure. My choice is ARB.

 

[jjvw]

I have contemplated an ARB rear with a Detroit front (because I expect to also eventually loose the front Rubicon locker). But, with the Jeep being a daily, I still occasionally find myself using 4wd on snowy streets.

 

[Xposure]

Lunchbox up front is a solid plan if you don’t live in icy areas.

Detroit in the rear is basically bulletproof.

Why aren’t lunchbox lockers good in icy areas? I would have thought it could be good to be locked on ice. Is it because it will engage and cause a sudden jar that can cause instability or something along those lines?

 

[jjvw]

Why aren’t lunchbox lockers good in icy areas? I would have thought it could be good to be locked on ice. Is it because it will engage and cause a sudden jar that can cause instability or something along those lines?

Some have described a locked differential as the "low side finder". With both wheels spinning on a slippery slope, that end of the vehicle will slide downhill which might mean going sideways. Whereas, with an open diff, the one wheel that isn't spinning will tend to hold the vehicle in place.

Additionally, a locked diff will want to keep pushing the vehicle in a straight line while turning. Somewhere the traction will break. On a slippery road, that can mean big trouble with a loss of control. Imagine driving on a mountain shelf road with no trees or guard rail to catch you. Lockers have their time and place. Ice and snow may not always be one of them.

My rear LSD is aggressive enough that I will sometimes have trouble getting out of an icy parallel parking spot if the road has enough of a crown. I find it to be as useful as it is troublesome.

 

[Xposure]

Some have described a locked differential as the "low side finder". With both wheels spinning on a slippery slope, that end of the vehicle will slide downhill. Whereas, with an open diff, the one wheel that isn't spinning will tend to hold the vehicle in place.

Additionally, a locked diff will want to keep the pushing the vehicle in a straight line while turning. Somewhere the traction will break. On a slippery road, that can mean trouble. Imagine driving on a mountain shelf road with no trees or guard rail to catch you. Lockers have their time and place.

My rear LSD is aggressive enough that I will sometimes have trouble getting out of an icy parallel parking spot if the road has enough of a crown. I find it to be as useful as it is troublesome.

That’s interesting to know. We don’t deal with much ice here...maybe once a year for a few days and everything shuts down lol. I’d really like to have the ability to drive on ice and snow for those situations in case I need to get out to help someone. I’m glad this was mentioned because I was thinking about going with a lunchbox in my front but I think this has changed my mind to going with one I can control. It’s bad enough that I have a LSD in back, I don’t need to compound the situation with a front locker that I can’t turn off so I think I’ll revamp that game plan lol.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

With air set up you still have to run wires and a switch. The switch should still go through a relay regardless.

There's no need for a relay for ARB's compressor switch, it doesn't draw enough current to require a relay. Plus the compressor doesn't run continuously so nothing gets hot, it only runs until the system gets up to pressure then it automatically shuts itself off.

For those concerned about the ARB's air lines getting snagged like some like to worry about, don't be. When properly installed and routed appropriately, they have no more likelihood of getting snagged on the trail then the brake lines or fuel line do. If you go to high-end competitions like King of the Hammers, etc,, you'll see the vast majority are running ARB Air Lockers, followed by Detroit Lockers in a strong second position in terms of numbers. Other lockers types like Ox were down in the single digits. That's from a count I made at KOH one year..

Agreed on automatic lockers not being a good decision if you have to drive on icy streets or trails. They'll tend to cause the axle with the automatic locker to slide when on ice and as said above, automatic lockers are often called "low-side finders" since they'll typically cause you to slide downward on ice. But if you never drive on ice, automatic lockers can be very nice to have. I ran a Detroit Locker in the rear of my previous TJ and it was absolutely great. It was well behaved once I learned how it liked to be driven which took a day or two. And all that meant was it taught me to keep the gas 'neutral' when making turns. Accelerating or decelerating hard will cause an automatic locker to lock up harder which means it won't be able to unlock through a turn. But with neutral throttle, they unlock through turns automatically.... which is why they're called automatic lockers.

Lunchbox lockers are also an automatic locker so they behave the same way as a Detroit Locker does. But they're smaller and weaker than a full case locker like a Detroit Locker, ARB, E-Locker, etc. so they're not a good choice for the rear axle. Plus they're not as well behaved when in the rear like they are in the front. In the front, they're a good choice unless you need to use 4x4 to drive on icy roads then they have the tendency to slide like mentioned above. In 2wd it's not a problem but in 4x4, it can be. I ran a No-Slip lunchbox locker in the front of my previous TJ and it was virtually unnoticeable in 2wd on the street. Silent and no effect on steering. Aussie and Lockrite lunchbox lockers don't affect steering in 2wd either but they do make a clicking/ratcheting sound when you make turns on the pavement.

I currently run Rubicon lockers but if they were to blow up tomorrow after many years of faithful service, I'd go straight to ARB Air Lockers if I had the $$$. If I didn't have the $$$ for ARB, I'd seriously consider E-Lockers front and rear. If those were too expensive, I'd go right back to a Detroit Locker in the rear and a No-Slip up front.

 

[ac_]

@Fouledplugs This ^^

 

[ac_]

With air set up you still have to run wires and a switch. The switch should still go through a relay regardless. The wiring part for me is easy as I am a union commercial industrial electrician. With air you would have to run wiring to the pump from a switch

Yeah but the harness for the locker is much thicker and less pliable than air. Plus all of the electrical for the air is short. Your compressor will be pretty close to your battery then you just wire to the switches. The wires can be small going through the firewall. The elocker wiring harnesses are thick and less pliable and need to be ran through the firewall. I am not trying to talk down about the elocker, In fact I have them, but I have also installed front and rear ARB's in my YJ so I have had both. Although I haven't completed my elocker install yet, I am just reporting my finding so far. l am stating based on what I know so far I would probably go with the ARB and the electrical setup seems harder than the air lines. There seems to be a lot more wiring in the elocker than the air locker. One advantage over the ARB is you don't have to install a compressor to lock th diffs, but if you have room for the compressor it is not a hard thing to do.

As far as noise as someone mentioned the compressor runs for like 3 seconds then holds air to the locker then when you want to unlock you just bleed the air takes a second. Other than that the compressor doesn't run so it doesn't wear out.

I don't think you can go wrong either way. I think I prefer the ARB, but we will see if anything changes when I get it in and working and truly what I have to do to get this wired. I will keep you up to date with pictures.

I have a thread going here with my progress if you are interested:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/look-what-big-pappa-just-brought-home.13181/

This is a thread of me putting in a Ford 8.8 rear end with a Eaton E-locker with progress and pics. Feel free to join me over there.

 

[jjvw]

How many out there run lockers, but don't have some kind of decent air supply for their tires?

I ask because all the worthwhile selectable lockers options all cost about the same. ARB needs a compressor, but if you already have one, the costs go back to being comparable.

 

[Davidtj]

The elocker wiring harnesses are thick and less pliable and need to be ran through the firewall

Not shure why you would run heavy thick wires into cabin when you control with a relay and only signal wires through fire wall

 

[Jim Byrne]

Want to talk lockers. Maybe looking to install lockers during gear change. Verdict is out to not go with lunchbox lockers, or a Detroit, but to go with air or electric. Anything recommended at a good price?

I installed two E-lockers a couple of years ago and am happy with them.
I made a few changes in the wiring but that's easy to do.
No air system to pay for & install and I like having control all the time.

 

[Jeepaholic]

After my rear Rubicon locker failed recently i have started looking into my replacement options.

The Eaton E-locker looked interesting until I learned that it will disengage for about half a wheel rotation when rolled backwards. That is a long distance to be open during a situation where you may need to be locked. Also, if wheel spin occurs during this open spot, I would be concerned about damage.

Once the ARB is locked, it stays locked until the air supply is removed. This little detail is why I will go with ARB.

I just installed the e locker, during testing I it didn't unlock between turning the wheels forward then backward

 

[Jeepaholic]

The elocker wiring harnesses are thick and less pliable and need to be ran through the firewall

Not shure why you would run heavy thick wires into cabin when you control with a relay and only signal wires through fire wall

The fat harness does not need to run into the cabin. Only one single write runs into the cabin to the switch.