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Looking for good replacements for sound bar speakers


Chris

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Don is tuning his amp this weekend. @Chris did you buy a laptop yet?

The three of us each have different amps which is kind of cool, but we really can't share our files because of that, but we can still speak about timing and delays and what we are using. You can convert the tuning filing to a PDF extension, email, then save as the .aspx extension. I did that when I was on the BMW forums, so I assume we still can do that.

I forget, what speakers are you running, how are using the 6 channels in your amp?
Yep, got a cheap Windows laptop!
 
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LJGreg

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I have Polk DB5252 and DB652 fully active. I was planning on upgrading to either AudioFrog or HAT but i've been chasing alternator whine since I installed it which I want to solve before I invest in the better sound. No sub yet but a 10" would also be part of the plan. I have a miniDSP mic and use REW to do a first tune - it would be interesting to share some graphs if anyone used the same.

Here is what I have done so far to try and cleanup my sound. I'm open to any suggestions.

-head unit and amp are going to a grounding block - which is grounded straight to the battery with knukoncepts 4 gauge.
-head unit and amp are powered directly from the battery with knukoncepts 4 gauge.
-new alternator
-tried grounding the RCA to the head unit case
-isolated the AMP enclosure from the vehicle (I saw some good improvement doing this)
-replaced and re-routed the RCA multiple times
-disconnected the ignition and backlight wire on the head unit so only incoming +12v is straight from battery

I finally installed a ground loop isolator which solved the issue but I can hear the signal loss so looking for a proper fix.

My next steps are to pull EVERYTHING out and sit in on the passenger seat and try installing everything one component at a time. I am wondering if there is just too much RF noise for this AMP under my dash. I also have the BT module coming for the AMP so I can try running without the head unit.
 

Rooscooter

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Back to the original topic.

So... @Chris and @skrelnik what speakers (2 or 3 options) would you suggest for a set up putting out 50W RMS to the existing 4 speaker positions?

This is from the perspective that I'm not going to put a 2K set up in the Jeep. Maybe components up front but what would you guys do with just coaxes?

$75-$125 a pair?

$125-$175 a pair?

Would you go with 5 1/4 in the dash or a 4x6?

I see that you can get a 6 1/2 in the sound bar but it's a crap shoot depending on the speaker it seems. Would you guys do that or stick with the 5 1/4?
 

Chris

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That's a redundant statement.

Mac Guy here.... :cool:
I love my Mac!


Back to the original topic.

So... @Chris and @skrelnik what speakers (2 or 3 options) would you suggest for a set up putting out 50W RMS to the existing 4 speaker positions?

This is from the perspective that I'm not going to put a 2K set up in the Jeep. Maybe components up front but what would you guys do with just coaxes?

$75-$125 a pair?

$125-$175 a pair?

Would you go with 5 1/4 in the dash or a 4x6?

I see that you can get a 6 1/2 in the sound bar but it's a crap shoot depending on the speaker it seems. Would you guys do that or stick with the 5 1/4?
Reach out to Don about this. He will know way better than I will. I know very little about stereo system setups, which is why I went to him. He made something for me that will just work, which is what I wanted as opposed to guessing. @skrelnik may know though.
 
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skrelnik

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Back to the original topic.

So... @Chris and @skrelnik what speakers (2 or 3 options) would you suggest for a set up putting out 50W RMS to the existing 4 speaker positions?

This is from the perspective that I'm not going to put a 2K set up in the Jeep. Maybe components up front but what would you guys do with just coaxes?

$75-$125 a pair?

$125-$175 a pair?

Would you go with 5 1/4 in the dash or a 4x6?

I see that you can get a 6 1/2 in the sound bar but it's a crap shoot depending on the speaker it seems. Would you guys do that or stick with the 5 1/4?
Assuming your amp is 4x50 watt RMS with, 4 ohm impedance, and your budget for both sets is between $200-$300 combined, there are plenty of options. Definitely go with 6.5"s in the sound bar and 5.25" up front.

The Kickers and Polks do well for coaxials, but once you start to look for a 2-way component with crossover you are entering a new level and price range since you also have a new cost to mount the tweeters.

There is some real good european entry level stuff that Don at Unexpected Creations knows of. Most of this can't be bought by people here in the states, so you may not even know to look for it, like that BLAM, Ground Zero, Audiotec Fischer, Micro Precision are some examples.

If you want to just make it quick and painless and never think about it again (Blue pill), just grab the Kicker coaxial 5.25" and 6.5". If you want to explore into audio and learn new brands to potentially upgrade your audio system down the road, or just increase your knowledge, then take the red pill, and call/email Don asking for some advice.
 

skrelnik

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I have Polk DB5252 and DB652 fully active. I was planning on upgrading to either AudioFrog or HAT but i've been chasing alternator whine since I installed it which I want to solve before I invest in the better sound. No sub yet but a 10" would also be part of the plan. I have a miniDSP mic and use REW to do a first tune - it would be interesting to share some graphs if anyone used the same.

Here is what I have done so far to try and cleanup my sound. I'm open to any suggestions.

-head unit and amp are going to a grounding block - which is grounded straight to the battery with knukoncepts 4 gauge.
-head unit and amp are powered directly from the battery with knukoncepts 4 gauge.
-new alternator
-tried grounding the RCA to the head unit case
-isolated the AMP enclosure from the vehicle (I saw some good improvement doing this)
-replaced and re-routed the RCA multiple times
-disconnected the ignition and backlight wire on the head unit so only incoming +12v is straight from battery

I finally installed a ground loop isolator which solved the issue but I can hear the signal loss so looking for a proper fix.

My next steps are to pull EVERYTHING out and sit in on the passenger seat and try installing everything one component at a time. I am wondering if there is just too much RF noise for this AMP under my dash. I also have the BT module coming for the AMP so I can try running without the head unit.
Did you have alternator whine from the very beginning? And then you made all the above updates to where you are today, and you will have the whine?

Are you using the stock speaker wiring or did you rewire everything, including the overhead pods and subwoofer? Do you have a subwoofer?

I currently have Helix P1 tweeters in the Valicar pods, and I then tried AudioFrog GB10s in the Valicar pods. I sold the GB10s shortly thereafter and their pods - went back to the P1 tweeters and pods.

A couple weeks ago I ordered another set of Valicar pods with Micro Precision 5.28 tweeters. I get them soon and really excited to install with some beer from @Tom18 (Tom has the PP52DSP) - I can give you a comparison to the GB10s afterwards. For your amp though, which has way more juice than my PP 86DSP, you should look into the 7 series and pods, if the pods work for you - two styles.

Screenshot_20200613-180017.jpgScreenshot_20200613-180359.jpg
 

Rooscooter

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So... I posed the same question to the guys at Crutchfield. They don't carry any "European" brands which are always better because they're European.... :cool: but this is the short list they gave me in order:

5 1/4: Hertz DCX 130.3
Focal RCX-130
Infinity Reference REF-5032-cfx
Polk Audio DB 522

6.5's First.... he knew of only a few that were not too "tall" to fit in the sound pods.

Alpine SPE-6000 Type E
Hertz DCX 165.3
JBL Club 620 F
Pioneer TS-A652F A

Also he recommended the Infinity Kappa 64cfx Component speaker for the front. He said these are a good compromise between component speaker systems and standard 5 1/4 in the front.

I'm going to do some more reading up on these as well as look into some reviews of the speakers @skrelnik suggested. A friend swapped out his speakers in a Chevy Silverado with Hertz speakers and it was transformational. Before that I hadn't heard much about them.
 
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skrelnik

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So... I posed the same question to the guys at Crutchfield. They don't carry any "European" brands which are always better because they're European.... :cool: but this is the short list they gave me in order:

5 1/4: Hertz DCX 130.3
Focal RCX-130
Infinity Reference REF-5032-cfx
Polk Audio DB 522

6.5's First.... he knew of only a few that were not too "tall" to fit in the sound pods.

Alpine SPE-6000 Type E
Hertz DCX 165.3
JBL Club 620 F
Pioneer TS-A652F A

Also he recommended the Infinity Kappa 64cfx Component speaker for the front. He said these are a good compromise between component speaker systems and standard 5 1/4 in the front.

I'm going to do some more reading up on these as well as look into some reviews of the speakers @skrelnik suggested. A friend swapped out his speakers in a Chevy Silverado with Hertz speakers and it was transformational. Before that I hadn't heard much about them.
Crutchfield used to sell all that European audio but stopped for some reason. 🤔

Those are all very good choices by Crutchfield, focus on pairing your amp to the speakers and you will be fine. Think of an amp and speakers like springs and shocks, they both need to work together to optimally perform. @jjvw - don't yell at me for my very shallow spring/shock comparison!

I was impressed with that BLAM Relax line's specs. Amp is small and powerful, and they have 5.25" and 6.5" coaxial that pair well. The price is in line with all the ones above so I would look into those, even Morel has a great line up. There is a cult following for AudioFrog, the GS line would be the comparable model. Their 6" runs small so it will easily fit in the overhead pods.

This can be a never ending rabbit hole, good luck!
 
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Rooscooter

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Crutchfield used to sell all that European audio but stopped for some reason. 🤔

Those are all very good choices by Crutchfield, focus on pairing your amp to the speakers and you will be fine. Think of an amp and speakers like springs and shocks, they both need to work together to optimally perform. @jjvw - don't yell at me for my very shallow spring/shock comparison!

I was impressed with that BLAM Relax line's specs. Amp is small and powerful, and they have 5.25" and 6.5" coaxial that pair well. The price is in line with all the ones above so I would look into those, even Morel has a great line up. There is a cult following for AudioFrog, the GS line would be the comparable model. Their 6" runs small so it will easily fit in the overhead pods.

This can be a never ending rabbit hole, good luck!
Thanks. I'm finding few impartial reviews of the BLAMs and even fewer ways to buy them other than getting them shipped from England. Will the 6.5's fit in the existing pods? They appear to be pretty deep for them based on some other places I'm reading. I'd hate to get them and find they don't and have to send them back.

I'm about half way down the rabbit hole now.... Another guy from Crutchfield pinged me back with a suggestion of using all Infinity speakers. The KAPPA 64cfx up front and the Reference 6532ix in the pods. He's done the pod install and says they can add a spacer ring to fit those in the factory holes.
 

Chris

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Don't do anything yet. Wait until I get my stereo and install it. Maybe then you'll want to drop 2k on the same setup? I don't know, but I'm expecting it's going to sound pretty epic.

I mean look at the review on the amp:


My HU is alpine, my amps are helix, my speakers are Focal, and my subs are FI. I have the focal flax series 4" in my dash I installed the tweeters in the A pillars, I have 6.5" in the front door and I have the 6x9" coax in the rear deck. All being fun fully active from the Helix V-Eight. I have the spxl1000 running a trio of 10" subs in a 4th order where the 8" port is installed thru my rear deck, so ALL THE BASSAND SOUND is going into the cabin and not rattling my trunk.. this is a SQ build, but I can ground and pound with anyone! Let me tell you once you get the DSP of the V - Eight dialed in ( took me a few weeks) and you put on something from enya, or the hobbit movie, something with a full orchestra and singing and some modern instruments, prepare to loose all bodily function and enter into Hi-Fi Nirvana. You should wear a diaper, you will loos control of all bodily function when you hear these amps and these speakers sing like angels from on high. I literally had tears in my eyes.The complete euphoria I hear everyday is nothing short of magical. These amps are ones of the best ever produced. They are so warm and artful on how they make the speakers dance. And these focal flax speakers, I said wtf?Flax for speakers? I tried them and I was so I'm pressed. The pure deep earthy tones and the tweets are not over powering. They sing. You can hear someone's slight lisp, or the parting of their lips when going to the next line The way the subtle ness can be heard is great.
 
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Rooscooter

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Don't do anything yet. Wait until I get my stereo and install it. Maybe then you'll want to drop 2k on the same setup? I don't know, but I'm expecting it's going to sound pretty epic.

I mean look at the review on the amp:

If I go 2K on a sound system I'll need to sleep in your garage....
 
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skrelnik

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Thanks. I'm finding few impartial reviews of the BLAMs and even fewer ways to buy them other than getting them shipped from England. Will the 6.5's fit in the existing pods? They appear to be pretty deep for them based on some other places I'm reading. I'd hate to get them and find they don't and have to send them back.

I'm about half way down the rabbit hole now.... Another guy from Crutchfield pinged me back with a suggestion of using all Infinity speakers. The KAPPA 64cfx up front and the Reference 6532ix in the pods. He's done the pod install and says they can add a spacer ring to fit those in the factory holes.
The BLAM 6.5"s are 61mm deep and my current 6.5"s are 65mm deep, so the BLAMs will be a-okay. What specs are you seeing?

A spacer ring can be added for sure, if you have tools and are handy you can make those.

BLAMs you should be bought from a dealer, and if you need help finding one just ask. The guy Chris used, and me as well, can make alternate suggestions.

Another comp is Crutchfield is like Quadratec, has everything you need, but lacks the niche brands and high end stuff. The guy we use has that niche stuff and is helpful. Can build as much or as little as you want.
 

LJGreg

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Did you have alternator whine from the very beginning? And then you made all the above updates to where you are today, and you will have the whine?
Exactly. I installed the HU, Speakers and AMP all at once and the whine was terrible. Before that I was stock and no whine. All the changes below were to chase this down.

Are you using the stock speaker wiring or did you rewire everything, including the overhead pods and subwoofer? Do you have a subwoofer?
Nope, I re-ran new speaker wire for everything. No sub yet, need to get this fixed first. I'll definately be asking for some advice once i'm ready to add some bass.

I currently have everything removed sitting on the passenger seat but temporarily wired up. It sounds good so i'm going to start installing one component at a time.

I currently have Helix P1 tweeters in the Valicar pods, and I then tried AudioFrog GB10s in the Valicar pods. I sold the GB10s shortly thereafter and their pods - went back to the P1 tweeters and pods.

A couple weeks ago I ordered another set of Valicar pods with Micro Precision 5.28 tweeters. I get them soon and really excited to install with some beer from @Tom18 (Tom has the PP52DSP) - I can give you a comparison to the GB10s afterwards. For your amp though, which has way more juice than my PP 86DSP, you should look into the 7 series and pods, if the pods work for you - two styles.
Awesome, ya I would love to hear your comparison of all three. The 7.28s look amazing but not sure i'd put that much money in an open top jeep! Any thoughts on the HAT Imagine Series? I like the fact that they advertise them as weatherproof.
 

Rooscooter

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OK... now you guys have done it! I'm going to put speakers in front of other stuff now!

I've been looking at the BLAM speakers today and have found a local dealer that carries the Relax line. I've also found a couple in the UK that will deliver to the US (eventually!). The difference if cost is eye watering.

Audio Express in Phoenix lists the 165RC for $349 a pair while the 130RC's are $299 a pair. A total of $649 for a set!
Audio Express

In the UK InCarTec has the same speakers for a total of about $185 after exchange rate and delivery costs! That's a $464 difference!
InCarTec

At $185 I might do it. I've reached out to InCarTec to see if indeed they are available for that price.
 

skrelnik

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Exactly. I installed the HU, Speakers and AMP all at once and the whine was terrible. Before that I was stock and no whine. All the changes below were to chase this down.
So do you think it could be one of those items? I would rule out speakers but is the head unit and amp grounded properly. Throwing out random things here. Did you check out the amp's ground terminal to see the wire is properly secures. What gauge power and ground are used? What brand of wire? Some wire is advertised as 8 gauge, but that is the size of the jacket and on the inside is 12 gauge. Cheap wire can be just that. Not saying this is the case, but trying to throw everything including the kitchen sink at you.

What do you think about swapping the amp out to see if it's the amp, or a different head unit.

Nope, I re-ran new speaker wire for everything. No sub yet, need to get this fixed first. I'll definately be asking for some advice once i'm ready to add some bass.
Sub is huge, many options to go depending on how you use the Jeep.

I currently have everything removed sitting on the passenger seat but temporarily wired up. It sounds good so i'm going to start installing one component at a time.
Awesome. Slowly test it out. Same here as well as I am waiting for my new speakers. I am rewiring a little and taking the 6.5" pod speakers off the amp and powering directly from the head unit. I only want one amp for now and my sub takes 4 channels.

Awesome, ya I would love to hear your comparison of all three. The 7.28s look amazing but not sure i'd put that much money in an open top jeep! Any thoughts on the HAT Imagine Series? I like the fact that they advertise them as weatherproof.
The guy I buy my stuff from uses the 5.28s with his P Six, so I will surely let you know.

I have heard great things about HAT. The owner recently had a B speaker sale, great prices for not perfectly looking speakers. I almost took the plunge but I didn't and went with these Micro-Precision. Other brands to at would be Dynaudio or Sinfoni, but I would look at for a used set from a known DIYMA member or buy new from a dealer. You might be surprised the cost coming from the dealer vs the internet, the dealer could be cheaper and you also get real customer service.