My Warn winch developed a problem a few weeks ago

The VR10-S vs. M8000-S Discussion is moot.

A Warn M8000-S (aka M8-S, P/N) 87800) is now on the way. It is replacing the S*ittybilt XRC-8 installed by the previous owner that has only been used a handful of times in the 10+ years since it was installed. Even though it works just fine and has done its best to improve my opinion of things S*ittybilt, its not a Warn.

I tried very hard to like the Warn VR10-S. At Northridge 4x4's current sale price of $730 it is a good value, and for someone looking for a self-recovery "just in case" winch rather than a regularly used tool the VR8 and VR10 may actually be the best buys. But try as I might, a Warn VR is not for me.

The best winch I ever had was a Warn 8274 I bought used for $500 in the late '90's. I cleaned it up, painted the motor casing and put it to work. It is still in use today. It failed once, but it was not the fault of the winch - it was a loose ground connection that took a minute and a half to find and fix.

In the end I was quite willing to pay a few dollars more for a Warn winch with a design proven over decades of use and built by guys just a day's drive to the north of me whose names I can probably pronounce. While the VR is a Warn design and manufactured in a "partner" factory that produces nothing but Warn VR winches under the supervision of Warn employees, and notwithstanding Warn's good name and excellent warranty, in the end VR winches are manufactured by an outside entity in a foreign country and not by Warn itself. Does that sound to you like a recipe for top quality or the availability of spare parts 10 or 20 years from now?

Warn acknowledges in its own promotional materials that the VR series is in response to the flood of cheap Chinese imports and an effort to be competitive at a lower price point. There was a time when an M series was Warn's standard duty winch and the 8274 was a premium winch. Now Warn lists the VR as standard duty and the M series some places as a premium winch and others as a "classic/specialty" winch along side the 8274, yet nothing in the M series winches has changed enough to warrant such an upgrade in labeling. If yesterday's Standard is today's Premium or Classic then doesn't it naturally follow that today's "Standard" is really just sub-standard disguised with good marketing?

With that perspective, why would anyone buy less than the long time established standard and current classic, the Warn M8000? Or as my good friend Lewis often says, "Buy a tool, not a toy."
 
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The VR10-S vs. M8000-S Discussion is moot.

A Warn M8000-S (aka M8-S, P/N) 87800) is now on the way. It is replacing the S*ittybilt XRC-8 installed by the previous owner that has only been used a handful of times in the 10+ years since it was installed. Even though it works just fine and has done its best to improve my opinion of things S*ittybilt, its not a Warn.

I tried very hard to like the Warn VR10-S. At Northridge 4x4's current sale price of $730 it is a good value, and for someone looking for a self-recovery "just in case" winch rather than a regularly used tool the VR8 and VR10 may actually be the best buys. But try as I might, a Warn VR is not for me.

The best winch I ever had was a Warn 8274 I bought used for $500 in the late '90's. I cleaned it up, painted the motor casing and put it to work. It is still in use today. It failed once, but it was not the fault of the winch - it was a loose ground connection that took a minute and a half to find and fix.

In the end I was quite willing to pay a few dollars more for a Warn winch with a design proven over decades of use and built by guys just a day's drive to the north of me whose names I can probably pronounce. While the VR is a Warn design and manufactured in a "partner" factory that produces nothing but Warn VR winches under the supervision of Warn employees, and notwithstanding Warn's good name and excellent warranty, in the end VR winches are manufactured by an outside entity in a foreign country and not by Warn itself. Does that sound to you like a recipe for top quality or the availability of spare parts 10 or 20 years from now?

Warn acknowledges in its own promotional materials that the VR series is in response to the flood of cheap Chinese imports and an effort to be competitive at a lower price point. There was a time when an M series was Warn's standard duty winch and the 8274 was a premium winch. Now Warn lists the VR as standard duty and the M series some places as a premium winch and others as a "classic/specialty" winch along side the 8274, yet nothing in the M series winches has changed enough to warrant such an upgrade in labeling. If yesterday's Standard is today's Premium or Classic then doesn't it naturally follow that today's "Standard" is really just sub-standard disguised with good marketing?

With that perspective, why would anyone buy less than the long time established standard and current classic, the Warn M8000? Or as my good friend Lewis often says, "Buy a tool, not a toy."

Like you I tried really hard to like the Warn VR series but could not, so I am still looking for my winch and really want the M-8000s for all the reasons we know about, and moreso from @JerryBransford posts. The price is tad bit too high for me at this time so time to start looking under couch cushions and dumping coins in the piggybank.

I do the think that Warns VR line is garbage and I hope they sell enough at those prices to yield enough profit to continue to cover more free parts to the real Warn winch owners.

In my searches, Engo has the best value faux winches out there though, Rockridge 4wd has the SR9S for $389, the SR10S for $413 and SR12S for $464.

I find it hilarious that Warn was running a rebate sale in May, and now in June the sale price is better than the May rebate price. I wonder what month in the year they have the lowest prices on winches, maybe end of July after the July 4th sales and before labor day sales???
 
I would not go so far as saying that Warn VR winches are garbage. They are built to a price point and are the best of the Chinese-made options. They are good for what they are intended to be - an affordable entry-level light-duty winch backed by a good warranty.

I also wouldn't call Engo faux winches. They are value winches with a decent reputation.
 
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I would not go so far as saying that Warn VR winches are junk. They are built to a price point and are the best of the Chinese-made options. They are good for what they are intended to be - an affordable entry-level light-duty winch backed by a good warranty.

What I meant, and should have elaborated, for the money they are a terrible value which is synonomous, at least to me, as garbage or something I don't want. I am a masshole by heart, and thus have a need to crap on poorly made products and the NY Yankees.
 
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What I meant, and should have elaborated, for the money they are a terrible value which is synonomous, at least to me, as garbage or something I don't want. I am a masshole by heart, and thus have a need to crap on poorly made products and the NY Yankees.

Oh, a Masshole. You must have meant gahbage. That's different.
 
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20 years ago, we were a Warn retailer for several years, in my father's auto supply shop. We a had a few warranty claims, where the customer clearly screwed up an install or made a mistake while operating a winch. Since we sold it, the customer would come back to us and ask us to make the call to Warn. We did on a couple occasions, and Warn always took care of the customer no matter whose fault it was. We were never denied a part or assistance.

That's why 20 years later when I bought my TJ, the second thing I bought for it was a new Warn M8000. First thing was a Rockhard stubby bumper to mount the Warn onto. I didn't even have the Jeep home yet, and I had already bought the bumper and M8000.

I had a 1990 fullsize Blazer, with 8" lift and 38" swampers among other mods back when we were a Warn dealer, the Blazer had a Warn HS9500i on it. Bet it's still on there today......
 
I finally had the time to respool my rope onto the newly rebuilt winch yesterday. The front 15' of it or so was looking pretty worn and it worried me enough that I trimmed it off which means I had to resplice the rope around the Safety Thimble. It's far harder to do that with a well-used rope since when inserting the tapered end down into the center of the rope, there are enough little frayed rope 'whiskers' to really make that a difficult job. In fact I couldn't do it even with the rope tapered down and wrapped tightly with electrical tape to give it a smooth tapered surface.

Blaine had sent me a photo of a simply made tool that made it FAR easier to get it done. It's nothing more than a length of 12 gauge solid wire bent into a loop and secured over a piece of wood, pvc, etc. to serve as a handle. It slides easily down into the center of the rope after the rope is pushed together to open it up... synthetic rope is woven much like a Chinese finger-puzzle. Then the tapered end of the rope is either inserted into the wire loop or, what worked better for me, taped to the wire in such a way to form a taper so it can be pulled down into the rope.

So thank you Blaine, that tool you suggested really made the difference.

rope-tool.jpg
 
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I finally had the time to respool my rope onto the newly rebuilt winch yesterday. The front 15' of it or so was looking pretty worn and it worried me enough that I trimmed it off which means I had to resplice the rope around the Safety Thimble. It's far harder to do that with a well-used rope since when inserting the tapered end down into the center of the rope, there are enough little frayed rope 'whiskers' to really make that a difficult job. In fact I couldn't do it even with the rope tapered down and wrapped tightly with electrical tape to give it a smooth tapered surface.

Blaine had sent me a photo of a simply made tool that made it FAR easier to get it done. It's nothing more than a length of 12 gauge solid wire bent into a loop and secured over a piece of wood, pvc, etc. to serve as a handle. It slides easily down into the center of the rope after the rope is pushed together to open it up... synthetic rope is woven much like a Chinese finger-puzzle. Then the tapered end of the rope is either inserted into the wire loop or, what worked better for me, taped to the wire in such a way to form a taper so it can be pulled down into the rope.

So thank you Blaine, that tool you suggested really made the difference.

Did you have any problems with that bury holding? I just respliced a couple of lines that had the exact same issues as yours, and I had a hell of a time getting the splice to hold tightly around the thimble. Never had that issue with a new line, or even a used one. I'm not sure what was making it so difficult this time, aside from the fraying that you mentioned.
 
Did you have any problems with that bury holding? I just respliced a couple of lines that had the exact same issues as yours, and I had a hell of a time getting the splice to hold tightly around the thimble. Never had that issue with a new line, or even a used one. I'm not sure what was making it so difficult this time, aside from the fraying that you mentioned.
With the proper length bury and a good loading of the splice when you are done, that should never be an issue. What thimble and what line?
 
Did you have any problems with that bury holding? I just respliced a couple of lines that had the exact same issues as yours, and I had a hell of a time getting the splice to hold tightly around the thimble. Never had that issue with a new line, or even a used one. I'm not sure what was making it so difficult this time, aside from the fraying that you mentioned.
No problems, though I made the tail a little longer than normal, around 15", to give it more surface to hold onto since it was well used. After first passing the tail through the hole formed 1/2" below the themble, I pulled on the rope pretty firmly to snug it up against the base of the thimble. Then that 15" tail was pulled down and buried into the rope. A vise held the Safety Thimble while I pulled on the outer rope to smooth it down and tighten it up.
 
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With the proper length bury and a good loading of the splice when you are done, that should never be an issue. What thimble and what line?

Yeah, I've literally never had it happen before, and I've spliced a lot of lines...but this one didn't even want to hold long enough to be loaded. I haven't even seen that when a line is soaking wet. The thimble was a TRE Safety thimble, and the line was an
 
Have to agree, I'd sooner see the winch stall, rerig with a snatch block and resume pulling than see the winch go up in smoke.
For those who bother to think through such issues, they'd realize that the Warn winch rated to 9,500 lbs, didn't have a problem until it reached the lab's test load of 16,000 lbs. which was well above what was expected. They simply increased the load until it either stopped working or broke. That 16,000 load that finally broke it is only achievable in a lab, you'd never be able to produce a 16,000 lb. load on the trail in real usage when mounted on a Wrangler. To worry about that would be to also worry about driving a Jeep that becomes dangerous to drive at 110 mph.

I don't understand why some people worry about potential situations that just won't occur except in the lab or in situations we just won't encounter. Loading a 9,500 lb. capacity winch mounted on a Wrangler to 16,000 lbs. just ain't gonna happen anywhere but in a lab. Period.

Once in a while some comments just get plain stupid here.
 
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Was talking to my brother the other day; his 1700 dollar Zeon took a shat after one pull of his 4 Runner. Something broke inside according to the (authorized) repair shop. The shop did say they had not seen that issue previously so hopefully it was a fluke. Warn took care of it of course. Unfortunately the shop is 3 hrs away so a bunch of time lost on the road.