NP231 doubler / crawlbox

A couple of things to consider:

Most gasoline engines in factory trim obtain maximum fuel mileage not by lugging the engine and mashing the gas pedal to get torque. That's actually about the worst thing you can do. Wrecks fuel economy AND labors the engine unnecessarily. Fuel efficiency is improved more by operating at or near (below, not above) the max torque output of the engine. Not by lowering rpm and making the engine labor. The max torque of most factory versions of the 4.0 is between 3000 and 3500 rpm. But they don't usually like to operate in that range long term. So, somewhere between 2700 and 2900 is pretty good for distance driving and highway driving. Having said that, your 6 speed NSG370 and 33" tires would yield a highway cruising speed of around 70 mph at 2750 or so rpm, IF you had 4.10:1 axle ratios. But you don't. 3.73:1 ratios are too high for 33" tires, as you will struggle to attain much above 2500 rpm at all, and especially on any sort of hill. The constant shifting will drive you nuts. That's true whether you have a NP231 (2.73:1) or NP241OR (4:1) transfer case. Either of those are 1:1 in 2WD High range, which is your highway mode.

Off Road, the 4:1 ratio of the NP241OR provides nice benefits, AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT PLANNING A LOT OF MUD DRIVING. In mud, you often need 4WD low range to yield some wildly spinning tires without stopping to chose between 4wd Hi and 4wd Low. Mud is where the 2.73::1 ratio in 4Lo of the NP231 can be a big help. Having said that, a "doubler" or an auxiliary series gear reduction device poses several issues you might not have considered. First, it has to fit somewhere. If you mount it at the rear TC output, you affect gearing only for the rear axle, not the front axle. If you place it between the transmission and the transfer case, you alter gearing to both axles, but you relocate the transfer case rearward. That causes driveline angle issues YOU will have to solve with both driveshafts, and you'll have to replace both. Even in the LJ, there is limited room to throw driveline parts at it. My guess? You'll end up spending twice as much money and time trying to get some sort of driveline "doubler" to work than if you simply found a used NP241OR in a wrecked Jeep and freshened it up. Probably more than if you simply bought an Atlas and associated adapters.

The added complication of being the guy breaking new ground with a complicated idea can be a huge waste of time. You are the ultimate guinea pig. At work, we call that a "science project". We avoid them like the plague. Customers looking for truly unlimited free engineering help get the polite "decline to quote". Meanwhile, the guys with 4.10 or 4.56:1 axle ratios are buzzing around getting great fuel mileage without all the Rube Goldberg cutting, welding, measuring, risk, and chopping up the Jeep.

I think I would simply find a good axle gear shop and go that route first. Then consider your next move if you still want changes.
 
They go quick these days. The new billet cases have revamped the interest in them. Where about are you located?

The Phoenix area. Been just searching on Craigslist. I deleted my Faceplant account so no Marketplace.

Just order an atlas

Fuck off 🖕!

My understanding is the D300 case is smaller in size than an Atlas ll case. With my 5-speed I am better off than an auto trans with the D300 case. I think in this here thread, the MMW D300 and a doubler is in the range of size as my NP231.

OK money man, will you order one for me? You can claim me on your taxes.

Add me too please!! Hahaha.
 
A couple of things to consider:

Most gasoline engines in factory trim obtain maximum fuel mileage not by lugging the engine and mashing the gas pedal to get torque. That's actually about the worst thing you can do. Wrecks fuel economy AND labors the engine unnecessarily. Fuel efficiency is improved more by operating at or near (below, not above) the max torque output of the engine. Not by lowering rpm and making the engine labor. The max torque of most factory versions of the 4.0 is between 3000 and 3500 rpm. But they don't usually like to operate in that range long term. So, somewhere between 2700 and 2900 is pretty good for distance driving and highway driving. Having said that, your 6 speed NSG370 and 33" tires would yield a highway cruising speed of around 70 mph at 2750 or so rpm, IF you had 4.10:1 axle ratios. But you don't. 3.73:1 ratios are too high for 33" tires, as you will struggle to attain much above 2500 rpm at all, and especially on any sort of hill. The constant shifting will drive you nuts. That's true whether you have a NP231 (2.73:1) or NP241OR (4:1) transfer case. Either of those are 1:1 in 2WD High range, which is your highway mode.

Off Road, the 4:1 ratio of the NP241OR provides nice benefits, AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT PLANNING A LOT OF MUD DRIVING. In mud, you often need 4WD low range to yield some wildly spinning tires without stopping to chose between 4wd Hi and 4wd Low. Mud is where the 2.73::1 ratio in 4Lo of the NP231 can be a big help. Having said that, a "doubler" or an auxiliary series gear reduction device poses several issues you might not have considered. First, it has to fit somewhere. If you mount it at the rear TC output, you affect gearing only for the rear axle, not the front axle. If you place it between the transmission and the transfer case, you alter gearing to both axles, but you relocate the transfer case rearward. That causes driveline angle issues YOU will have to solve with both driveshafts, and you'll have to replace both. Even in the LJ, there is limited room to throw driveline parts at it. My guess? You'll end up spending twice as much money and time trying to get some sort of driveline "doubler" to work than if you simply found a used NP241OR in a wrecked Jeep and freshened it up. Probably more than if you simply bought an Atlas and associated adapters.

The added complication of being the guy breaking new ground with a complicated idea can be a huge waste of time. You are the ultimate guinea pig. At work, we call that a "science project". We avoid them like the plague. Customers looking for truly unlimited free engineering help get the polite "decline to quote". Meanwhile, the guys with 4.10 or 4.56:1 axle ratios are buzzing around getting great fuel mileage without all the Rube Goldberg cutting, welding, measuring, risk, and chopping up the Jeep.

I think I would simply find a good axle gear shop and go that route first. Then consider your next move if you still want changes.

Have you read this thread? The doubler goes between the transmission and the t-case. There are 3-4 companies who make them for a variety of transmissions and transfer cases.
 
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A couple of things to consider:

Most gasoline engines in factory trim obtain maximum fuel mileage not by lugging the engine and mashing the gas pedal to get torque. That's actually about the worst thing you can do. Wrecks fuel economy AND labors the engine unnecessarily. Fuel efficiency is improved more by operating at or near (below, not above) the max torque output of the engine. Not by lowering rpm and making the engine labor. The max torque of most factory versions of the 4.0 is between 3000 and 3500 rpm. But they don't usually like to operate in that range long term. So, somewhere between 2700 and 2900 is pretty good for distance driving and highway driving. Having said that, your 6 speed NSG370 and 33" tires would yield a highway cruising speed of around 70 mph at 2750 or so rpm, IF you had 4.10:1 axle ratios. But you don't. 3.73:1 ratios are too high for 33" tires, as you will struggle to attain much above 2500 rpm at all, and especially on any sort of hill. The constant shifting will drive you nuts. That's true whether you have a NP231 (2.73:1) or NP241OR (4:1) transfer case. Either of those are 1:1 in 2WD High range, which is your highway mode.

Off Road, the 4:1 ratio of the NP241OR provides nice benefits, AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT PLANNING A LOT OF MUD DRIVING. In mud, you often need 4WD low range to yield some wildly spinning tires without stopping to chose between 4wd Hi and 4wd Low. Mud is where the 2.73::1 ratio in 4Lo of the NP231 can be a big help. Having said that, a "doubler" or an auxiliary series gear reduction device poses several issues you might not have considered. First, it has to fit somewhere. If you mount it at the rear TC output, you affect gearing only for the rear axle, not the front axle. If you place it between the transmission and the transfer case, you alter gearing to both axles, but you relocate the transfer case rearward. That causes driveline angle issues YOU will have to solve with both driveshafts, and you'll have to replace both. Even in the LJ, there is limited room to throw driveline parts at it. My guess? You'll end up spending twice as much money and time trying to get some sort of driveline "doubler" to work than if you simply found a used NP241OR in a wrecked Jeep and freshened it up. Probably more than if you simply bought an Atlas and associated adapters.

The added complication of being the guy breaking new ground with a complicated idea can be a huge waste of time. You are the ultimate guinea pig. At work, we call that a "science project". We avoid them like the plague. Customers looking for truly unlimited free engineering help get the polite "decline to quote". Meanwhile, the guys with 4.10 or 4.56:1 axle ratios are buzzing around getting great fuel mileage without all the Rube Goldberg cutting, welding, measuring, risk, and chopping up the Jeep.

I think I would simply find a good axle gear shop and go that route first. Then consider your next move if you still want changes.

Have you driven a manual trans with stock gearing through the rocks or any technical type off-roading? A lower geared case has absolutely nothing to do with power curve or fuel economy. It is about slowing the wheels to a ridiculous crawl while the engine is being anything but efficient.
 
The Phoenix area. Been just searching on Craigslist. I deleted my Faceplant account so no Marketplace.



Fuck off 🖕!

My understanding is the D300 case is smaller in size than an Atlas ll case. With my 5-speed I am better off than an auto trans with the D300 case. I think in this here thread, the MMW D300 and a doubler is in the range of size as my NP231.



Add me too please!! Hahaha.

Mine was real close to 1” longer than a 231 with standard sye.
I did not have to make any driveline changes. That alone almost payed for the ecobox. Something to consider.
 
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Seems like it’s the best way to avoid fucking around in the long run.

There is value in flipping the stock 300 case. Once adding a billet $1700 case I think there are better options.

The downside of flipping a 300 was the leaks and popping out of gear. Both of those are addressed with the DEO flip kit. A 4-1 transfer case with twin sticks for around $2k? Hard to beat. Same setup with a double box in front for $2500? Hard to beat.
I installed 2 of these 18 months ago and have zero issues.
There is only value in this if you want to do the work and enjoy it.
 
.Fuck off 🖕!

My understanding is the D300 case is smaller in size than an Atlas ll case. With my 5-speed I am better off than an auto trans with the D300 case. I think in this here thread, the MMW D300 and a doubler is in the range of size as my NP231.
.

Don’t make me go all rubicrawler on you. ;)
 
There is value in flipping the stock 300 case. Once adding a billet $1700 case I think there are better options.

The downside of flipping a 300 was the leaks and popping out of gear. Both of those are addressed with the DEO flip kit. A 4-1 transfer case with twin sticks for around $2k? Hard to beat. Same setup with a double box in front for $2500? Hard to beat.
I installed 2 of these 18 months ago and have zero issues.
There is only value in this if you want to do the work and enjoy it.

And as you have found having the added benefit of the additional gearing. After going from 2.72 to 4.1 in my t-case I knew I wanted the option of having more gears so at the time STaK's was it or the DIY doublers until the 4 speed Atlas was released. The added benefit of going to the gear driven t-case be it a Atlas or D300 or NP205 or others is the ability to do front digs.
 
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Have you read this thread? The doubler goes between the transmission and the t-case. There are 3-4 companies who make them for a variety of transmissions and transfer cases.

Most, yes. Sounds like the OP has limited experience in fabrication, building frankenjeeps, and it might be best to keep it simple. A tcase swap is simpler than adding driveline gearing devices.
 
And as you have found having the added benefit of the additional gearing. After going from 2.72 to 4.1 in my t-case I knew I wanted the option of having more gears so at the time STaK's was it or the DIY doublers until the 4 speed Atlas was released. The added benefit of going to the gear driven t-case be it a Atlas or D300 or NP205 or others is the ability to do front digs.

Still have not done any FDs. Lol.
The market is obviously there for t cases. Here we are bitching about $4500 cases and guys spend that on a set of wheels and tires.
You have been around long enough to see the coming and going of lots of off road companies who could not make it through the slow times, or tough times when they had a product issue. My earlier concern is spending more on a 205 or 300 than what an atlas costs once you reach that amount go with the tried and true.
Pretty sure my setup will survive my 4cyl and any possible magnum swap in The future.
Bottom line is low gears are fun!!!!
 
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Most, yes. Sounds like the OP has limited experience in fabrication, building frankenjeeps, and it might be best to keep it simple. A tcase swap is simpler than adding driveline gearing devices.

This whole thread is about t cases only. A doubler t case is a 4 speed case.
 
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Have you driven a manual trans with stock gearing through the rocks or any technical type off-roading? A lower geared case has absolutely nothing to do with power curve or fuel economy. It is about slowing the wheels to a ridiculous crawl while the engine is being anything but efficient.

The issue of fuel economy with the OPs 3.73 axles was addressed early in the thread. It's likely he should choose the right axle gears before attempting any more complicated driveline swaps, additions, or fabrications. He seems quite concerned about cost. My point is that getting his axle ratios is likely money better spent than screwing around chopping up otherwise perfectly good LJ Jeeps.

And yes, I have driven my Jeep, with manual trans, stock gearing, through large rocky trails, over significant ledges, dropoffs, staircases, and off-cambers in all directions, and on some hair-raisingly steep and rough trails across both the Mojave and Sonora deserts, Owens Valley and its surrounding mountains, and through both Colorado and Nevada. I'm well aware of what a stock configured 2006 LJ Rubicon on 33s with a NP241OR transfer case is capable of. I own one. I'm also well aware of what a highly-modified custom off-road vehicle on 37s, with an Atlas tcase and built 289 Ford on Dana 60s will do. Not sure what difference it makes, but it's not my first rodeo with Jeeps and off-roading, by a long shot. My background is actually racing motorcycles and baja bugs in SCORE, Baja Cross, and AMSA events, and I spent many a day and night pre-running with my old CJ5, racing several classes of race vehicles, likely before you were born. My last two years were spent with the Stroppe Team, where I was able to learn about building the toughest off-road race vehicles in the world for SCORE, NORRA, Dakar, La Carrera Panamericana, Pro Rally, and keep them together long enough to make the finish line in races like the Mint 400 under the punishment of drivers like Parnelli Jones, Manny Esquerra, Gale Pike, Scoop Vessels, and Bob Gordon.

No need to be condescending and rude.
 
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The issue of fuel economy with the OPs 3.73 axles was addressed early in the thread. It's likely he should choose the right axle gears before attempting any more complicated driveline swaps, additions, or fabrications. He seems quite concerned about cost. My point is that getting his axle ratios is likely money better spent than screwing around chopping up otherwise perfectly good LJ Jeeps.

I agree axle gears should be addressed long before tcase changes. Most of the discussion here has been well beyond those needing axle gears. This thread has been about a transfer cases and options for lower transfer case gears for many pages. Most every option discussed here is anything but chopping up a LJ.
 
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Most, yes. Sounds like the OP has limited experience in fabrication, building frankenjeeps, and it might be best to keep it simple. A tcase swap is simpler than adding driveline gearing devices.

The whole thread was dedicated to this type of doubler and the many options available. IMO adding a doubler doesn't make it a frankenjeep.

The issue of fuel economy with the OPs 3.73 axles was addressed early in the thread. It's likely he should choose the right axle gears before attempting any more complicated driveline swaps, additions, or fabrications. He seems quite concerned about cost. My point is that getting his axle ratios is likely money better spent than screwing around chopping up otherwise perfectly good LJ Jeeps.

Adding a dooubler doesn't require chopping up his LJ. While your points are valid about his axle gearing this thread had moved beyond his initial questions and had gone into more depth of the added options on the market.

Still have not done any FDs. Lol.
The market is obviously there for t cases. Here we are bitching about $4500 cases and guys spend that on a set of wheels and tires.
You have been around long enough to see the coming and going of lots of off road companies who could not make it through the slow times, or tough times when they had a product issue. My earlier concern is spending more on a 205 or 300 than what an atlas costs once you reach that amount go with the tried and true.
Pretty sure my setup will survive my 4cyl and any possible magnum swap in The future.
Bottom line is low gears are fun!!!!

You've got to try out some FD's they are fun.

Heck I don't even want to get into how much I have wrapped up in my Jeep now. And as has been stated I may have to replace the t-case at some point. I'm going to start watching for a NP205 just to have sitting here for when or if my STaK's blows up. Then I'll go from there on what I decide to do.
Obviously an Atlas would be the quick and easy solution to that problem but then again where is the fun in that?

Also just to comment on the 205 and the new case I think most people ponying up for one has a high HP engine & full size rig that the NP205 came in stock.
 
I agree axle gears should be addressed long before tcase changes. Most of the discussion here has been well beyond those needing axle gears. This thread has been about a transfer cases and options for lower transfer case gears for many pages. Most every option discussed here is anything but chopping up a LJ.

Who in their right mind would chop up an LJ???

🙂
 
The whole thread was dedicated to this type of doubler and the many options available. IMO adding a doubler doesn't make it a frankenjeep.



Adding a dooubler doesn't require chopping up his LJ. While your points are valid about his axle gearing this thread had moved beyond his initial questions and had gone into more depth of the added options on the market.



You've got to try out some FD's they are fun.

Heck I don't even want to get into how much I have wrapped up in my Jeep now. And as has been stated I may have to replace the t-case at some point. I'm going to start watching for a NP205 just to have sitting here for when or if my STaK's blows up. Then I'll go from there on what I decide to do.
Obviously an Atlas would be the quick and easy solution to that problem but then again where is the fun in that?

Also just to comment on the 205 and the new case I think most people ponying up for one has a high HP engine & full size rig that the NP205 came in stock.

Very true on the full size high HP thing. Those guys are spending big money building those rigs. They are spending that much on coil overs/shocks. I get narrow minded thinking about my application only.
 
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Adding a dooubler doesn't require chopping up his LJ. While your points are valid about his axle gearing this thread had moved beyond his initial questions and had gone into more depth of the added options on the market.
I know a guy with a doubler on a non-chopped up LJ. With gears too. ;)