Peak Crusing RPM?

astjp2

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Ok, so at 70 mph, what RPM does your jeep cruise at? I am looking at this chart and the torque curve is way higher than I was expecting. I am trying to use a little more data before I decide on a gear ratio. It looks like that 3200 rpm is where I think I want to run. Tim

Borrowed from: https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2006/1317740/jeep_wrangler_se_4_0l.html

79119
 
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3200rpm is the peak rpm for power, but you want to "cruise" closer to 2000rpm for economy. You can down shift to pass and climb hills. 2000rpm will deliver way better fuel economy.

The bigger the tire, smaller the engine, the less flexibility you have for cruising range. If you are running 35s or 37s you will want to be closer to 3000rpm. Or if you are driving an SE, same closer to 3000rpm. But a 4.0L with 33s has no problem cruising closer to 2000rpm.
 
Using the wallace calculator, at 4.88 gears and 34" tires, I am only at 2800 rpm, which means that driveshaft is just a humming at 70. 5.13's are not much better if I want to peak torque. I think I would want to run more in the 2500 range, which leaves an ability to pass on the highway. This is just a discussion, not meant to be an argument. Play with the calculators: http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc-rpm.php
 
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3200rpm is the peak rpm for power, but you want to "cruise" closer to 2000rpm for economy. You can down shift to pass and climb hills. 2000rpm will deliver way better fuel economy.
I can see that, but there is 50 ftlb of torque available between 2k and 2.5K, so how much of an effect would that have on driveability? My wife's old TJ was stock with 3.55's and 235x75-15 tires and cruised the same in fourth (direct drive) as my YJ does with 34" buckshots and a 32RH. The overdrive was ok on the AX 15 but there was a definate downshift on a hill. The 32 RH just screamed but didnt back down. Like I said, this is a mental exercise. I need to find some stroker numbers and see how they compare. Tim
 
I run 33s in a TJR, so 2450rpm at 70 in 6th, 2950rpm in 5th.
I have 4.10s but wish for 3.73s which would drop my 70 cruise to 2200rpm.
Climbing a mountain grade with a trailer I'm often in 3rd gear, almost 50mph, close to 5000

I drove 2000miles last summer, Kootenays to Salem OR and up the coast to Vancouver. I stayed under 60mph, 1950rpm..... tough to do on the Interstates.... but I got 20mpg. At 70mph I got 15mpg. My '87 YJ, 3.07s and 33s did 25mpg at 70 in 4th. 2200rpm

Try the GrimmJeeper calculator, way more data to work with.

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
 
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Using the wallace calculator, at 4.88 gears and 34" tires, I am only at 2800 rpm, which means that driveshaft is just a humming at 70. 5.13's are not much better if I want to peak torque. I think I would want to run more in the 2500 range, which leaves an ability to pass on the highway. This is just a discussion, not meant to be an argument. Play with the calculators: http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc-rpm.php
The 2500 range is where your tj will be the happiest power/economy wise.
 
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You didn't mention what your current gearing is, or what transmission you are running, but here is a very long message that I have been intending to type up for a long time. This is kind of a weird situation with our Jeeps, and after literally thousands of highway miles on my TJ back and forth across the country, I decided to stay with 4.10 gears in my TJR on 33 x 10.5s and, in most cases, I just turn the OD off.

Let me start with some background. My Jeep is at 145k, new water pump, new radiator, new hoses, new fan clutch, all within the last 20k. New cats within the last 10k, Banks cat back, new TPS, new idle air controller, new plugs (within the last 30k) No CELs - In my opinion, this engine is running tip top for what it is...

After dealing with an overheating problem on a trip out west, and generally just to pass the time on the highway, I obsess over watching engine load vs. engine temp. vs. intake air temp vs. RPM using the Torque app and an off brand bluetooth OBD reader.

With the 4.10 gears, anything over 65 or so, causes the OD to drop in and out quite a bit. If there is a head wind at all, or rolling hills, it gets pronounced.
When the OD engages, RPM drops to about 2000-2200 RPM. Engine load then begins to climb and the temps start to climb too. Not into a dangerous territory (usually), but they start climbing nonetheless. Engine temp climbs, and intake air temps actually start to go down. MPG climbs briefly, but begins to drop as engine load increases. I theorize that intake temps drop because the fan is spinning slower and moving less air across the radiator, and maybe the engine is just making less heat - The rotation of our fans literally throw air right at the air intake. (just a theory)
Once engine load reaches 100% the OD kicks out. Engine RPM goes up by about 1000 RPM. Engine load drops to about 70% depending on incline, wind speed, etc. MPG also goes up again briefly, but then comes back down and stabilizes. Coolant temp drops, intake air temps go back up (more engine speed = more coolant circulation, more air across the radiator, more heat thrown at the air intake)
The Jeep will run all day long, seemingly as happy as can be, up and down hills, a/c on, into the wind, whatever, at a very steady state, running in the area of 3000 RPM. So, in my head at least, that is the sweet spot.

So, then I started looking into regearing and using a calculator similar to the one referenced in this thread.

At 75mph, with 33" tires:
4.10 gears = 2160 RPM in OD, 3131 RPM out of OD
4.56 gears = 2403 RPM in OD, 3482 RPM out of OD
4.88 gears = 2571 RPM in OD, 3727 RPM out of OD

And that is as far as I looked. But notice, in every scenario, I never get back to that sweet spot of 3000 RPM in OD, but the engine will really start to scream when the OD drops out. 4.88 gears will get me close, and might do the job, but should I come to a hill or need to squeeze the throttle a bit more, the OD will kick out, the engine will howl. RPMs will actually jump to the backside of the torque curve. I have a friend who usually travels with me in a 4 door JKR who has regeared and is dealing with this exact problem - not enough engine speed in OD, but too much when the OD kicks out.

So in the end, I am staying with 4.10 gears and I just habitually turn the OD off when I start up the Jeep when I am running long stretches of highway. If I notice a tailwind, or am running a downhill section of highway (that isn't too steep) I click the OD on and take advantage of whatever MPG I can get. I'll usually leave it in OD until it drops out on it's own and then I manually disable it again. Having it kick in and out seems like it would cause the most wear and tear and is frustrating when trying to use the cruise control, as the speed just begins to fluctuate too much as the OD drops in and out.

I'm not sure if that is the perfect answer, but I'm just not willing to gamble the expense of regearing to find out, because this is one of the more expensive mods we take on in our Jeeps.

The real magic bullet for the TJs with auto transmissions would be a less deep OD gear. The .69 OD really just cuts way too much RPM for our engines.

Long winded, and it kind of goes against the general line of thinking in the Jeep community, but it works for me. I hope it gets you somewhere.

-T.
 
Well I am going to regear so that is why the discussion. I know guys like @Jerry Bransford like 4.88 and higher, but I am not 100% convinced what way to go. My 4.6 stroked YJ has 34" and 4.11 with no overdrive, I feel that highway rpm's are excessive and my cooling system has a hard time keeping up. I know there is a happy balance, I am just trying to find what is optimum for my situation. Tim
 
Long winded, and it kind of goes against the general line of thinking in the Jeep community, but it works for me.
Works for me too. I always say gear for direct. ie 3rd in the auto, 4th with the 5speed and 5th with the 6speed... and use OD for what it was intended, to drop rpm, quiet the ride, extend engine life, and gain a few MPG.

And don't be afraid to down shift.
 
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I just read another thread where some of the senior members on here recommend 5.13 for 33's and 5.38 for 35's, I just don't see how a jeep is supposed to sustain a 4K+ rpm cruise and have any sort of economy. I watched my wife consistently get 19mpg on summer gas, I get 17 in the same jeep because I am more agressive. With those rpm's, fuel burn BSFC .50 / 6.2 = .0806 gallons / horsepower / hour. At 195 hp that is 15.7 gallons per hour, at 70 mph that is 5 gallons per hour. That cant be right! WTF?
 
Ok, so if I say that the loading on the engine is 50%, I can double that mileage, that is still only 10mpg which I dont think is very economical.
 
I just read another thread where some of the senior members on here recommend 5.13 for 33's and 5.38 for 35's, I just don't see how a jeep is supposed to sustain a 4K+ rpm cruise and have any sort of economy. I watched my wife consistently get 19mpg on summer gas, I get 17 in the same jeep because I am more agressive. With those rpm's, fuel burn BSFC .50 / 6.2 = .0806 gallons / horsepower / hour. At 195 hp that is 15.7 gallons per hour, at 70 mph that is 5 gallons per hour. That cant be right! WTF?

You’re confused. No one thinks 4K+ RPM cruise is a good idea. With a 42RLE, 5.38 gears, and 35” tires I’m at 2500 rpm. For the newer TJs with my Automatic Trans there is no better ratio for 35” tires. Period. @Chris or anyone can tell you.
 
I am running 4.88 gears 6 speed with 35's. I run 3150 rpm at 75 mph, and average 14 mpg. The jeep runs just fine, it minimizes downshifts on small grades. Here in Colorado we have a few climbs on the interstate that are tough no matter what you're in. Eisenhower and Vail pass. Both used to be 3rd gear climbs at 45mph when I was stock tires and 3.73 gears. Now I can run them in 4th at 55-60 mph. Honestly I feel that 5.13 gears would have been a better choice especially here in Colorado.
 
Using the wallace calculator, at 4.88 gears and 34" tires, I am only at 2800 rpm, which means that driveshaft is just a humming at 70. 5.13's are not much better if I want to peak torque. I think I would want to run more in the 2500 range, which leaves an ability to pass on the highway. This is just a discussion, not meant to be an argument. Play with the calculators: http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc-rpm.php


'04 LJ
4 speed automatic
33s
4.88
cruise at 70MPH around 2400 rpms all day long.
 
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The numbers are nice, but my butt dyno and contemporaneous fuel mileage records tell me that 2,600-2,700 rpm is the optimum rpm range for cruising on the Interstate with my particular combination of engine, transmission, gear ratio and tires.

I run 5.38 gears with my 42RLE transmission and 35" tires and can comfortably cruise all day at my desired 2,600-2,700 rpms. My throttle is still responsive at those rpms. If I were attempting to cruise at 3,200 rpm for "maximum horsepower" my engine wouldn't have any more to give.

P.S.

If I cared much about maximizing mpg I wouldn't own a jeep. ;)
 
I just read another thread where some of the senior members on here recommend 5.13 for 33's and 5.38 for 35's, I just don't see how a jeep is supposed to sustain a 4K+ rpm cruise and have any sort of economy. ...

What trans/tire/gearing combo results in highway cruising rpms of 4k rpm?
 
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The numbers are nice, but my butt dyno and contemporaneous fuel mileage records tell me that 2,600-2,700 rpm is the optimum rpm range for cruising on the Interstate with my particular combination of engine, transmission, gear ratio and tires.

I run 5.38 gears with my 42RLE transmission and 35" tires and can comfortably cruise all day at my desired 2,600-2,700 rpms. My throttle is still responsive at those rpms. If I were attempting to cruise at 3,200 rpm for "maximum horsepower" my engine wouldn't have any more to give.

P.S.

If I cared much about maximizing mpg I wouldn't own a jeep. ;)

Yep... I was doing 80mph today at 3000 rpms to get around a wacky tractor trailer and I could tell as was approaching the limit of what the engine could give me. Probably could have pushed 90mph but I would have been white knuckling it.
 
recommend 5.13 for 33's and 5.38 for 35's, I just don't see how a jeep is supposed to sustain a 4K+ rpm cruise
Depends, is it a trail rig, with no real intention of seeing extended interstate cruising? Is the gearing set up for continuous off road use, rarely seeing 70mph?